5th Bn Grenadier Guards . Italy June 1944

I'm trying to track the daily movements of 5th Btn Grenadier Guards from May to July 1944. Mu uncle was killed at Bagnoregio June 12, 1944 and is buried at Bolsena. Is there a regimental history? I'm also looking to access any war diaries. The version of events (he was killed when his Bren Carrier hit a mine) I learned from my father and family, seems to be incorrect. And I'm trying to track down what really happened...it seems to involve reprisals.

 

Online version of their history.
The Grenadier Guards in the war of 1939-1945, by Nigel Nicolson and Patrick Forbes v.2.
Hard copy.
GRENADIER GUARDS IN THE WAR OF 1939-1945 - Naval & Military Press

Edit. Page 445 from my copy.


This thread is will be of interest.
> 2609784 Joseph George HOWE, MM, 5 Grenadier Guards | WW2Talk <


Entry in Roll of Honour on page 535.



Page 359.
Mentions his wounding at Salerno in 1943 when he was with the 6th Bn.





dbf posted the 1943 war diary for 6th Bn Gren Gds here .
> Grenadier Guards, 6th Motor Battalion, Jan - Dec 1943 | WW2Talk<

 

Thank you so much....so he was only just 20 when he died so he musyt have been 19 when wounded at Salerno. I'm trying to trace his steps from leaving Rugby school, going to Oxford (must have been very short or dferred??), commisioned and sent to Salerno. Did he go straight there? Through Sicily, Taranto, or Malta...etc. There's another story I'm trying to track down. The CEF were there and apparently shot some German soldiers out of hand (their reputation from Cassino wasn't great!) and that Tommy Thwaites was captured with others and shot in reprisal....but that the whole episode was hushed up because of Franco-Allied relations. It all seems unlikely but a veteran told me this is in the 1990s. So on goes the hunt. Many thanks again

 

Christian, I guess that you have researched it, but Bagnoregio was indeed a formidable obstacle, had the pleasure of going there a few years ago:
Find an object | Imperial War Museums
Lieutenant Thomas Arnold Thwaites | War Casualty Details 1707499 | CWGC

 

My late father, Sydney William Warwick, was a Guardsman in No 2 Company of 5th Battalion. He talked to me a few years ago about the attack on BAGNOREGIO. The Regimental history by Nicolson gives the movements of the Battalion leading up to this battle. While he didn't mention anything about your Uncle, I do recall him telling me about a group of Grenadiers who had been captured by the German defenders and who had been captured, and at some point were discovered by another group of Grenadiers and able to make a run for it, and some/all successfully got away. I have a copy of the Unit War Diary but it makes matters no clearer. Perhaps the write up of the War Diary was also influenced by an unwillingness to expose the events you describe. I have uploaded the relevant page.
Regards, Nigel Warwick

 

Christian.

I have the WDs for 5 GREN GDS from Jan-Dec 44. Get me through my website www.cassinobattlefields.co.uk and I will happily send them to you by Dropbox.

Regards

Frank

 

Nigel.

You are right about the captured Guardsmen. They were captured by the Germans on 11 Jun 44 as No 4 Coy pushed forward from the crossroads at Celleno once the Pretoria Regiment tank had been destroyed just short of the blown bridge in what is now Ponzano. Those No 4 Coy PWs were subsequently released from the Germans by soldiers from No 2 Coy who themselves captured some German paratroopers.

With regards to the destruction of the Carrier patrol, I think that the GREN GDS Regtl History is wrong. The Regtl History has the Carrier patrol destroyed on 11 Jun 44 during the attempts by armour from The Pretoria Regiment to flank around to the left and attack Bagnoregio from the left. The WDs describe the event as taking place during the Prince Albert's Guard attempt over the same ground on 12 Jun 44. I go with the WD account and dates. The dates also then match the date of death of Lt Tommy Thwaites.

Regards

Frank

 

Thanks all for the information...yesterday I walked the Cavendish Road at Monte Cassino. I'd tried several times from both the Caira and Abbey end but got lost in the middle (around Madras Circle)...last year I finally met up with local guide who knows the battlefield well and this year completed it. The road collapsed in several places and there are overgrown paths to get round. Amazing to think they got some 60 tanks up there!

 

Christian.

Where do you think that the road collapsed? I walk it regularly and am not aware of anywhere along the route where the road has collapsed.

I hope that you were impressed with the two turnings in the two reentrants and appreciated the brilliance of the Indian engineering.

Regards

Frank

 

You're right, not collapsed. But the guide took me on path that went parallel to the actual Cavendish road for a few hundred meters because the road "had not been cleared". We were next to it. It was on the left (in the Caira to Abbey direction) and there were times when I could not see it.

Yes, the engineering was spectacular! And I spend some time at Madras Circle and where one tank ran into a ditch. It's in the Plowman/Rowe book, which I found very helpful.