7885543 Cpl John GRAVES, C Squadron 8th Royal Tank Regiment: DOW 17/12/41

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Ricardo Shack, Nov 17, 2024.

  1. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

  2. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    I suspect he was KIA on 15 December, when Pt.204 was overrun by the D.A.K. and Italians or was in one of the 3 "I" tanks supporting 3/1 Punjab during their attack, two of which were disabled. Some 8 R.T.R. tanks were operating with 5 Ind Bde that day, even though the regiment was not.

    September 13, 2023 – The Crusader Project

    On 17 Dec there was no action as the Axis forces had withdrawn.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  3. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

    Thank you so much Andreas. I used 17/11/41 as that is what his Commonwealth Graves record states. There is a record elsewhere in this Parish that suggests his tank returned to laager driven by the driver (unhurt) with the gunner dead and Cpl Graves mortally wounded. The date recorded was 23/11/41, which confused me.
     
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  4. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

    Sorry meant 17/12/41. (Schoolboy error)
     
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  5. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

    Thinking about it, what you say makes sense. He was wounded possibly ob the 15th and died of his wounds on the 17th.
     
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  6. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Unfortunately the Casualty list doesn't say when he was injured just the date when he died of his wounds.
    20241117_185023.jpg

    20241117_185047.jpg
     
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  7. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

    Thank you for your information. Its helping to build a picture. I gather these Valentines were neither well armed nor armoured. Duw, those men were brave.
     
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  8. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    For the date 23/11/1941 there were 3 casualties.
    20241117_194413.jpg 20241117_194356.jpg
     
  9. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Jarratt, Cotton and a Davis not on the lists above are buried together. I know this is not given you the answers you are after but maybe it helps putting the jigsaw together and hopefully someone more of an expert than me can put the pieces together for you.
    doc3965217.JPG
     
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  10. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Okay that got me thinking, and I checked for earlier actions.

    Cpl. Graves was badly wounded while supporting 6 NZ Bde on Totensonntag. I suspect that these wounds were so bad that he died of them almost a month later.

    I have written up the experience of the Bde here: Totensonntag – the Experience of 6 New Zealand Brigade

    The two attached pages are from the 8 RTR war diary. Quality isn't the greatest, but they are readable.

    Screenshot 2024-11-17 at 8.16.51 PM.jpg

    Screenshot 2024-11-17 at 8.17.10 PM.jpg

    All the best

    Andreas
     
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  11. GeoffMNZ

    GeoffMNZ Well-Known Member

    From another post '
    8th Bn R.T.R. Tank Names'

    Hope this helps
     
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  12. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    And here's a picture of Hector, thanks to Chris C.

    As it has Caunter camouflage, it would have been one of the early Valentines issued to 8 R.T.R.

    I suppose the man standing next to it is Tpr. Bailey. Valentine II 'Hector IV' 8 RTR Nov.1941 Caunter pattern.jpg
    All the best

    Andreas
     
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  13. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

    This is a picture of Stuart Hamilton MC that appears in his book Armoured Oddyssey.
     
  14. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

  15. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Correct on the appearance of the picture, but I don't think that is Hamilton, as he looked different from the chap in the picture.

    Anyone know what the double triangle sign in front stands for?

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  16. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

    Single triangle denotes A squadron
     
  17. Ricardo Shack

    Ricardo Shack Member

    I believe that the two triangles denote the Squadron leader, which Hamilton would have been.
     
  18. GeoffMNZ

    GeoffMNZ Well-Known Member

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  19. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Great, thanks a lot!

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  20. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    He was a troop leader in 'B' Sqdn. at the time of CRUSADER.

    All the best

    Andreas
     

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