Hello all, Was reading a bit of back history on the 9th Lancers and about their albeit brief stint with the BEF back in mid-May to mid-June 1940. As far as I can see because they fought as rear-guard in the Somme area and were thereafter evacuated from Brest despite what wiki says (about their evacuation from Dunkirk at the mo!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Queen%27s_Royal_Lancers#B.E.F._Belgium_.26_France & World War II France (B.E.F) - Somme 1940 France (B.E.F) - Evacuation from Dunkirk 1940 (Not seemingly correct!) They didn't get a Dunkirk medal http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30011354 When these were awarded, and anyhow: Types of medals The term ‘official’ describes any medal authorised by the Queen, or her predecessors. Only these medals are allowed to be worn on a service uniform. Commemorative medals are those which have been produced by organisations or private medal companies to commemorate particular branches of service or areas of operations. These are not issued by the MOD Medal Office and may be purchased from the private medal company that produces them or from a reputable medal dealer. The Royal British Legion or other veterans associations may also be able to offer you further advice should you wish to purchase commemorative medals which cover your time or areas of service. Examples of popular commemorative medals are: National Service Medal Allied Ex-Prisoners of War Medal Dunkirk Medal British Forces Germany Medal As I read it they were entitled to "get" the 1939/1945 War medal for this period in France though. There's a quite strong take on this here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/80/a4300480.shtml Not quite sure what to make of this though? Not "getting" a "Dunkirk" makes perfect sense - but a rear-guard BEF medal perhaps seems to be lacking though? All the best, Rm.
I moved thread to the 1940 section of the forum where the 1940 campaign in France & Belgium is discussed . I'm sure the regulars in this bit will add to the thread. The only medals that matter are the official ones.
It does feel like an official BEF campaign medal is a bit overdue. As opposed to the 1939/1945 War medal... http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/80/a4300480.shtml https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Expeditionary_Force_(World_War_II) "No specific campaign medal was awarded for the Battle of France; however, any serviceman who spent 180 days in France between 3 September 1939 and 9 May 1940, or "a single day, or part thereof" in France or Belgium between 10 May and 19 June 1940, qualified for the 1939-1945 Star." I assume that in a lot of people's minds the expectation would be that those that were there would have "officially" got the Dunkirk... hence no need... A lot of our history is will-fully forgot!
Looking at my grandfather's records I see that he was awarded the 1939/43 Star on 18/4/1944 Instituted by the UK on 8 July 1943, this later became the 1939/45 Star - The 1939–1945 Star was awarded for any period of operational service overseas between 3 September 1939 and either 8 May 1945 in Europe or 2 September 1945 in the Far East theatre. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939%E2%80%931945_Star And I was looking into the criteria: "Army personnel had to complete 180 days of service in an operational command" So I would have thought he would have got it when it was "announced"... however... "The institution of the 1939–1945 Star was announced on 8 July 1943 and in August it was announced that the first uniform ribbons would be issued to qualifying personnel later in that year. The medals themselves were not intended to be available until after the cessation of hostilities. Some ribbon issues to overseas troops were delayed, but many had been received by the end of 1943 and were worn by recipients throughout the remainder of the war" So.... the sense that I get about the date of the award for him 18/4/1944 held no particular "significance" ? It was just when the army got around to issuing his... unless I am misunderstanding something there? Does anyone happen to have any army record info on some of those that were evacuated from Dunkirk as regards when they got their 1939–1943 or 1939–1945 Stars? I'm guessing the dates for when they will have got these will have perhaps varied too? Perhaps on the basis of whichever regiment the individuals were currently serving with? I saw that the medals themselves were not intended to be awarded until after the war: However under special circumstances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939%E2%80%931945_Star#Special_criteria Such as the award of a gallantry medal or MID the recipient qualified for the award of the 1939–1945 Star - so I guess got the medal (or again maybe just the ribbon?) then? All the best, Rm.
As I understand, medals were only issued if they were actually claimed by those entitled to them after the war. Only the nok of those who died recieved medals without having to claim them. Obviously the dates when individual servicemen/women became entitled to any medal varied as they entered any given theatre at different times throughout the war. Lionboxer
Thanks Lionboxer, Re. "Obviously the dates when individual servicemen/women became entitled to any medal varied as they entered any given theatre at different times throughout the war." So... "No specific campaign medal was awarded for the Battle of France; however, any serviceman who spent 180 days in France between 3 September 1939 and 9 May 1940, or "a single day, or part thereof" in France or Belgium between 10 May and 19 June 1940, qualified for the 1939-1945 Star." Should mean that those of the BEF, 2nd BEF etc. Gd. was in the 9th Lancers and in France with them 21st May 1940 to 17th June 1940 in the war records so... would qualify on the basis of ""a single day, or part thereof" in France or Belgium between 10 May and 19 June 1940" ....hence "became entitled" for the 1939-1945 Star on the basis of that. For me the "odd" thing is / was the phrasing "Awarded1939/43 Star on the 18th April 1944 in his war records. As I just thought he would (or could) have been awarded this as it was "Instituted by the UK on 8 July 1943" - almost a year before that April 18th 1944 date... But since.... ""The institution of the 1939–1945 Star was announced on 8 July 1943 and in August it was announced that the first uniform ribbons would be issued to qualifying personnel later in that year. The medals themselves were not intended to be available until after the cessation of hostilities. Some ribbon issues to overseas troops were delayed, but many had been received by the end of 1943 and were worn by recipients throughout the remainder of the war" Perhaps he was just in the group where "Some ribbon issues to overseas troops were delayed, but many had been received by the end of 1943 and were worn by recipients throughout the remainder of the war" - but since he was actually in the UK with the 24th Lancers... I was trying to work out whether this (waiting for it until as late as 18th April 1944) was a "normal" or "abnormal" delay. Hence I wondered what was the case of the date of the award for the 1939/43 Star for some of the rest of the BEF? In fact it seems like he was awarded the 1939/43 Star just as they were about to go off on the invasion of Normandy. Perhaps his imminent departure triggered something so that he could get it before he left...? All the best, Rm.
