Army Chaplains/Padre's

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by kingarthur, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  2. kingarthur

    kingarthur Well-Known Member

  3. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

  4. kingarthur

    kingarthur Well-Known Member

  5. Oldman

    Oldman Very Senior Member

    Remember also Each TA unit would have had their own chaplin, I know the railway photography loving Eric Treacy was attached to one of the Lancs TA Units and saw action in NWE.

    Whilst talking of chaplins anyone Remember Cooper of the paras in the Falklands war.
     
  6. Alan Allport

    Alan Allport Senior Member

  7. kingarthur

    kingarthur Well-Known Member

  8. mattgibbs

    mattgibbs Senior Member

    Many thanks for the info on that book. I shall be into the library this week to see if it can be got on the inter library loan for a read up.
    I have found that my own researched notes show that there was 3 Jewish chaplains in the early days of WW2. Gollop as Senior Jewish CF, plus Israel Brodie and Issac Levy. Levy's book Now I Can Tell was interesting reading.
    Regards
    Matt
     
  9. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Ann Widdecombe recently featured in a Chann 5 programme called War Hero in my Family. Her relative was a Chaplain serving in North Africa with an Infantry Bn.
     
  11. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    A friend who joined SG after the disbandment of the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) (is on part of the film here Lt Jeremy Cox (Picquet Officer) talked of 'old fire and brimstone' and here he is:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKLh4wU6m5w
     
  12. Joe Brown

    Joe Brown WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    King Arthur:

    They did a tremendous job in a War-time Infantry battalion. As a young first pip lieutentant a few weeks with my battalion and in the company of the Padre met men in a very special informative way. He knew their first names, if they were married and had children and whether a Hearts or a Hibernian football supporter and that information was 'a need-to-know' when you served in an Edinburgh Territorial Battalion!

    They could be approached if there was a special personal problem that you did want to raise with an officer; in battle they were armed only with a Communion Chalice and they braved the fire of the enemy rendering aid where it was needed and by their actions and bravery were a real inspiration.

    See my War Memoirs page 26 for an example.

    Joe Brown
     
    Charley Fortnum likes this.
  13. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    King Arthur:

    They did a tremendous job in a War-time Infantry battalion...They could be approached if there was a special personal problem that you did want to raise with an officer

    I found the same during the course of my own research. There were certainly poor chaplains (Australians were especially caustic about those), but the good ones were very good and a great asset to their units. In those days, you couldn't find a trained army psychiatrist below corps level, which meant that the chaplains had to serve as psychological counselors. Many had done that sort of thing in their parishes, of course, and I think the men were much more likely to trust the padre than any 'trick cyclist.' Religion was much more of a force then, and even many of the skeptics (who were perhaps the majority) had grown up with the rituals of the churches. By the way, from what I can tell the Scottish outfits were more religious than others. The Archbishop of Canterbury said that the men of the 1st London Scottish asked him some particularly well-informed theological questions.
     
  14. Joe Brown

    Joe Brown WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    King Arthur,

    When I was mobilised to The Colours on 1 September 1939 within a few weeks I and all the lads were given a copy (pocket-size) of the New Testament with our name written on the first page. I still have it! We even had our own Church of Scotland psalms and hymn books. We had regular Church Parades and occasional but very impressive Drumhead Services.

    Before we went into action the padre went round all the officers and gave them pocket versions of dominoes and cards so we could issue them to the lads when we thought they would be of use to help them pass the time!

    When the order came out that we were not to fraternise with the German civilians, the Padre created a problem when he told the CO he could not accept such an order as it was against his beliefs. He was returned to the UK, but with our respects and high regard for the man who was courageous with us in action and when faced by such a challenge stood by his principles.

    Joe Brown
     
  15. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

     
  16. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Can anyone provide general information on chaplins in the axis forces? I assume that they were a no no in Soviet forces?

    I always found the movie from which this still is taken very moving.

    It is Joseph T. O'Callahan on the Franklin. I think he is giving this man last rites
     

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  17. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    One name missing from the lists is that of our Chaplain Father (Pop) Higgins of the Newcastle Hexham diocese who could always be
    found in Battle sitting alongside the Doctor Captain Webb M.C. on top of their white Daimler Dingo chatting away rushing to help the wounded or haul the dead out of a knocked out Tank…after the war his Bishop refused him a pension and so all of the Officers - and
    and many OR's mostly protestants had a whip round and arranged a worthwhile pension for him as that was how well we thought of him

    Cheers
     
  18. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

    I`d just like to bump this thread again with regard to Army Chaplains as I have a question relating to soldiers who died at Casalty Clearing Stations or Corps Medical Centres which I`m hoping someone might be able to help with.

    In normal circumstances regimental Chaplains would obviously conduct the burial service of soldiers from their regiment; providing of course both the chaplain and his unit were in relatively close proximity at the time of death.

    However, does anyone know what would happen if, say for instance, a soldier was taken to a C.C.S. or Corps Medical Centre and died several days later by which time his unit had moved on? Some basic research shows there was usually a Chaplain at Corps level, so would he be responsible for any service or would the soldier even be given a service at all if he died in such a place?

    I`m curious if anyone can enlighten me as my Grandfather died at a Corps Medical Centre and his unit was quite some distance away when he died. The family has no letter of condolence from the Regimental Chaplain or senior officer which seems a bit odd.

    Any input would be gratefully received.

    Regards,

    John
     
  19. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    As PeterG points out in comment (#29) there have always been those who served in the Armed Forces who did not feel the need for army chaplains. Nevertheless, there are a number of chaplains I can think of who served in the Armed Forces in either WW1 or WW2 who were in the thick of the action and more than just carrying out their duties.

    Many chaplains were in the thick of the action fulfilling their non-combattant role during the bloodiest battles and often well above and beyond the remit of their role by assisting the dying and badly wounded and in some cases helping to save the lives of the badly wounded. One well-known Army chaplain who comes to mind from WW1 who comes to mind is Reverend Theodore B. Hardy, V,.C. D.S.O., M.C. (and M.I.D.) several times who died of wounds towards the end of the war (two photographs attached). There is a memorial to him in Carlisle cathedral (photograph also attached).

    In WW2 I can call to mind Reverend (Captain) Harold Watson who died on active service in southern England in November 1941 when attached to the 7th Battalion The Border Regiment. He is buried in the churchyard of his home village of St Bees, Cumbria (photograph of headstone attached). Reverend Watson died on 12 November 1941.
     

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  20. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I haven't read it myself, but Sir John Smyth VC wrote a book on this subject:

    In This Sign Conquer: The Story of the Army Chaplains (1968)
     

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