Bofors Guns and use of anti-aircraft pit

Veterans of my father's LAA regiment have told me that when a self-propelled Bofors Gun was deployed, a pit was dug into which the gun could be driven to help protect it from aerial attacks. Does anyone know if the gun remained in the pit when it was in action, or only retreated into the pit when out of action or under threat?

 

You need to clarify if it's self-propelled or towed.

A self propelled one looks like this:


My understanding is its permanently attached to the chassis and can not be dismounted. By saying the truck is in a pit, think of it as Hull down terms for tanks.

The situation would be very similar to this picture of a Crusader AA:

 

Self-propelled.

 

I think tmac is referring to a Self Propelled gun most likely on a tank chassis. Whatever the gun it was in many Regiments (especially Field Regiments) compulsory to place the gun in a pit to provide protection and camouflage. Even when moving several times a day the crews would dig a gun pit for each location unless the terrain was impenetrable when they would enclose the gun with sandbags or anything like them. Tanks would be placed hull down if possible but being highly mobile would depend upon their ability to get out of harms way, as would an SP (Self Propelled gun). (Other types of cover available from various sources as they say in the ads.)
The photo above shows an AA gun position somewhat exposed but is covered to an extent from low level aerial strafing by the neighbouring trees. In the last years of the war, particularly in Italy there was very little risk of air attack so these guns were either withdrawn and crews dispersed to other Regiments or used as artillery against armour or infantry targets, so needed to be able to fire horizontally.

 

My father was in the same regiment as TMac and he drove the SP Bofors as per the photo below
you tube vids show them shooting on the fly not to say they were not semi dug in if the push forward had been delayed

 

Spent the last hour on YT trying to find a video that I saw some time ago of Brits firing at tanks with a Bofors. So much for Technology as your posting seems to have suffered in transit.
It would be nice to se the photo if you get the chance to try again.
Thanks for the response. Time I got dressed ready to go shopping. Hard life this retirement!

 

Thanks for your helpful reply, Uncle Target. The SP Bofors was on a Morris C9B lorry chassis. There were SP Bofors on a Crusader tank chassis, but as far as I know, these were not used in LAA regiment

 

Thanks, Clive - I think the answer is they were dug in whenever they stopped for a while. I was particularly thinking of 92nd LAA's time defending the Benouville and Ranville bridges (Pegasus and Horsa) after arriving n D-Day. I know for certain they dug themselves in there, but was wondering if they came out of the pit to fire at the attacking German planes, 17 of which they shot down.

 

Why would they come out of their pit when, presumably, there were targets around who could well target the guns? The pit would not restrict their arc of fire.
Chris

 

A clear picture showing you could basically stop and fire after dropping the supports as required either after being dug in or on the fly

 

Gunners were constantly moaning about having to dig the guns in. Cant see them taking them back out of a hole that they have dug to open fire and go back into it unless its a tunnel.
Holes once dug ,tend to be cosy places to take cover and fire from whatever the weapon you are using. Even better were holes dug by someone else that gave good cover and field of fire.
As long as you check for boobytraps.

 

That's just reminded me of a story told by the late Lieutenant Jack Prior of 92nd LAA about trying to make digging of gun pits quicker in the weeks after D-Day:

‘We soon cottoned on to the fact that there was a quicker way of producing a large deep hole than by merely using a pick and shovel. This was to get hold of some anti-tank mines and set one of them off in the desired location. We tried this several times and it worked a treat, so long, of course, as one took ample cover while the debris was being flung to the four corners.

‘Of course, there is always one idiot in any group of people, and when one chap suggested it would save us even more digging if we used two mines one on top of the other, we decided to give it a go. A brave “volunteer” dug a suitable small hole, put the mines in, fitted a detonator, tamped down and withdrew to join the rest of us before winding the handle.

‘Unfortunately, we had all overlooked the synergetic effect, and on this occasion one plus one certainly equalled more than two. First, the world went up into the sky. Then, as is its wont, it all came down again. But, in addition to going higher, it also spread itself wider and we were bombarded with mud and stones for what seemed ages.

‘Fortunately, the gun was well away, but even that was hit. There were questions by neighbouring troops as to the origin of the exceptional bang, but that was all – except, so far as I know, the experiment was not repeated.’

 

We fail to appreciate how tough these men were, digging by hand with picks and shovels. The first mention I have of a bulldozer was at Anzio used by RE to dig deep Command Posts.
Regarding mines. The 67th Field Regt Survey Jeep triggered a nest of Teller Mines in a narrow lane outside Florence.
It blew the Jeep with the Survey equipment and four men over a 2metre high wall killing them all.
The German Para Engineers were apparently the instigators of placing at least two mines together, which were capable of not just blowing the tracks off a Sherman Tank but actually turning it over and killing the crew. I believe this also happened in NW Europe in 1944.
For you vehicle fans here is Major Gerry Ruston at Anzio posing next to a family product. Courtesy of the Shepherd Family Collection
Photo Digging Upper Register Gun Pit Courtesy Mennell Family Collection.

 

It would interesting to see how much digging in of the SP's took place after the Luftwaffe threat was reduced at the end of 44 start of 45.
I know they were used as were the trailered Bofors for ground shoots on many occasions

from 116th LAA diary
July 44
G Troop 382 Battery and some guns of C Troop 380 Battery engaged in a ground role against enemy mortar positions. Experiments were successful and were continued for several days.
11th July – D Troop 381 Battery relieved G Troop 382 Battery in defence of 133 Field Regiment gun area.
G Troop had a ground-shooting role as its primary task.
12th July – Guns of G Troop 382 Battery shelled on reaching their harbour area. The following casualties incurred:– Killed, L/Bdr Hughes, L/Bdr Jones, Gunner Cronin and Gunner Berry. Wounded – Gunner Price. Two 40mm SPs were damaged. Three of the fatal casualties were caused by a direct hit on a slit trench.

 

All that remains to be done is to stay in this world another two or three months,
which I hope can be achieved without too much digging.

P.S. As a matter of interest, they’re using Heavy Anti-Aircraft guns out here
in AGRA as field guns mostly air burst and Bofors as heavy machine guns.
No planes left now!

(The writers brother was an officer in HAA UK based but in late 1944 became an interpreter interrogating German POW's ).

The use of Bofors in CMB (Counter Motrar Battery) work is surprising.
I wonder if 116 LAA were engaging the mortars directly, or firing in a steep arc to drop shells over the crest of wadis or hills. (Would their shells be fused / airburst).
In which case they would need the fire to be observed either by a FOO or Aerial Observer.
Mortars were particularly used from gullies or "dead ground" where they were hidden from view., firing over the crest of raised ground.
This was why Upper Register was developed to fire the 25 Pdr like a mortar over mountain and hill crests. First used at Anzio then at Monte Grande.

Whatever, they appear to have been effective and kept the gunners as gunners not transferring to infantry.

 

from forum member Swiper
They used them at the Divisional Counter-Mortar Unit (thats 380's Battery most of the time) where they would get infantry to spot, tell the nearest Bofors who'd light up until the pops stopped...

Amazing to think these guys were not younger than their early 30s by this stage (the unit initially made up of 12th Bat that was recruited in 1940 with the average age group fro 25-27 in 1940!



27th September – 2 SP guns with 1st Ox and Bucks at Dum 3024. Target farm at 450 yards and church in Oirshot used as an OP. Ammunition expended 125 HE, 40 AP. Hayrick set on fire, farm shot up.

28th September – 2 SPs with Ox and Buck have four engagements in Dun 3125, shooting up factory, towers used as Ops and other small targets. No results observed. Range 500 yards Ammunition expended, 215 HE, 65 AP.

29th September – 2 SPs with OX and Bucks at Dum have four engagements – enemy positions in buildings and an OP near Oirshot at 1500 yards. Enemy replied with Small Arms and Mortar fire. Results not observed.

14th October – Ground Shooting 1100 hours, 4 guns of F Troop harassing fire and wood 740715. Predicted shoot on recorded targets, 435 rounds expended.
Ammunition: Each gun will carry 168 rounds HE and 24 rounds AP
116 (RW) Light Anti Aircraft Regiment War Diary

 

Very impressive detailed research. What do you intend to do with it. I tried writing books so that they would not be forgotten but have almost given up, as publishers just see them all as the same old story. The Commercial world it seems lacks humanity.
The ages for the men who fought in the War were in todays terms regarded as young but in general, fighting soldiers were aged 20 to 30 years old.
They tried to move anyone older to HQ or logistics but not in every case.
The person at the Centre of my studies was in some ways an older man, having joined up in 1939 aged 25. He was aged 29 when he was killed.
His Battery Commander a Major with an MC also joined up in 1939. He was killed three months later also aged 29.
These were relatively old compared to infantry, Paratroops or RAF Aircrews.
My wife visited Arnhem War Cemetery back in the 1960's and was horrified how young they all were.
The Jeep that struck the Nest of Teller Mines in Florence killed four men.
The Bombardier Driver was 25, The CPO 29, the other two were 24 years old.
The youngest Officer in the Regiment to be killed was 21 years old.
He died asleep in bed when the window sill in the house used as a CP was hit by an odd stray enemy shell.
The grim Reaper has no respect for age.
Whether or not they lived or died in the war, their stories should be their remembrance. No one is forgotten as long as someone tells of their endeavours.

 

Its not mine
They are the war diaries

My interest is my father was in 116th Laa and as stated was 30 odd years of age when serving then he moved to 92nd Laa