Checking for German ancestry on enlistment

My father was not allowed to become a radio signaller in the Essex Regiment 'because of his German ancestry'. His mother's maiden name was Swabey. I , and others, have researched the family back to late 1700 s in Herts./Bucks. We've found no German links.

Does anyone know how the army investigated this? Presumably the mother's name was submitted on enlistment, but what happened then? Was there a list of enemy-sounding names? Was this an accurate investigation or some random guesswork?

He was allowed to serve in the Officer's Mess in UK , eventually driving a jeep and taught to defuse mines. He was one of four who landed early, on 6.6.44, on Gold Beach, with the Hampshires, to clear a path for the Essex Regiment later that day.

 

I cannot answer your question but a search on Ancestry for Swabey's born 1900 - 1920 results in a total of 191 - so not sure why in particular your relative would be 'special'

TD

 

It could be because Swabia is a region in SW Germany, part of Bavaria. That doesn't mean that the name Swabey came from there, but there was a lot of suspicion of German sounding names in those days.

 

Swabia is in any case the English version of what is actually Schwaben, The whole story sounds garbled to me, on a number of grounds.

One enlists in the Essex Regiment as an infantryman, Any duty as a radio signaller would be something "on the side", and not necessarily suitable for any soldier coming along, requiring some expertise in radio menchanics, and a knowledge of codes and manual dexterity, and/or adequate voice presentation. It might have been presented as an excuse for rejecting an unsuitable man, or as some kind of joke. We shall never know.

As has been said, some suspect people were not enlisted at all, and others were enlisted only in the Pioneer Corps, but anyone enlisted in a regiment of the line was by definition not suspect (as witness his engagement on D Day, and the idea of the Army wasting time tracking soldiers' mothers maiden names is, frankly, ridiculous. Time to forget and move on.

 

Please don't take any offence, but do you think there was a possibility your father may have told a little white lie to remain in the UK for some personal reason? Could a parent have been ill at the time or possibly just met a new love? Maybe he knew of the purely historic German link to the family surname and used its loose connection to buy him more time?

If they considered him Germanic, could MI5 have kept tabs on him? I was astounded to see the local character analysis that was conducted by the local police force etc and handed over to MI5 regarding my great uncle on his return from the Spanish Civil War. I suppose if MI5 have just released the archive to TNA late last year, then you may have to wait a few more years to see watched individuals from the WW2 era.

Drop an email to MI5 like I did. When they wrote back to me, MI5 would not confirm they held a record on my uncle, but they were most helpful and did inform me that the Spanish Civil War records were being released to TNA.

After a while I wrote to TNA, but they hadn't received this archive collection. But when MI5 did release the archive, I was very impressed when TNA emailed me out of the blue and told me the records were available to the public.

I'm sure watched individuals during the WW2 era will likely see their records released to the public in due time.

In your initial message you said you could find no ancestral Germanic link going back to the 1700s. It made me think of the episode of Who Do You Think You Are on Billy Connelly. Tracing his grandmother's history saw her declared as Irish on one census, English on another and it turned she was actually born in India I think it was. Ancestors can be ever so slippery with the truth so I've found. Don't believe everything you read or trace!

 

I am frankly puzzled by this. If German ancestry alone barred someone from military service in WWII then none of the royal family's numerous relatives could have served. Neither could Mountbatten, nor any members of some distinguished families that had been in Britain for two or more centuries. How many generations back would such a restriction apply?

 

It's a long time since I have been able to return to this topic. It is very much on the back burner.
My father's service record gives no clues about this at all. He was actually in an Essex Regiment Beaching party and landed in the first wave on D-Day with the Hampshires, driving a jeep. He did have radio/electronic expertise prior to the war so presumably that is why he was interested in that field. There's no reason to think he would have lied. As a simple village lad he probably didn't even know about Swabia!
Another very elderly relative mentioned the German connection years ago, but had no paper evidence. I've done a lot of family research in the past, using original records, before the internet, with all its easily-made mistakes and wrong paths, was available So, it will remain as one of those mysteries.
Thank you very much to all who replied with suggestions.

 

Just re reading this thread - why not post/upload his service record?

TD

 

Actually there are 2 Swabia, one near Augsburg/Bavaria and the larger one in the region Stuttgart, Ulm, Lake Constance.
Stefan.
Stefan.

 

Hi German, I don't have a copy of the History of the Essex Regimental History, ( but forum member Charley does!) I'm not sure if any battalion of the Essex regiment landed on the first wave of D-day with the Hampshire's? I can tell you that the Hampshire's that you mention are the 1 Hamps part of 231 Infantry Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division. Another brigade of the 50th Division was the 69 Infantry Brigade. Again, no mention of a Essex battalion or a Beaching party.

After doing some more reading, I've found a Essex battalion (its the 2 Essex!) Part of the 56 Infantry Brigade of the above Division. Looks as if your Old man was not telling a porky pie. The three books that I've had a quick look are as follows - THE PATH OF 50th, Regimental History of The Hampshire Regiment Vol 3, & the Orders of Battle prepared by Lt-Col H.F.JOSLEN.. 2 Volumes. It would be interesting to see your Father's service records if you don't mind? War diaries may be called for in the future if your interested?

Edit, I don't have them..

Regards
Stu.

 

Thanks for your reply Stuart, and others. I've appreciated your thoughts on the topic.

No, my Dad was not one to tell porky-pies. His Christian upbringing and personal faith thoughout his life illustrated that, though forum members can't possibly know anything of that sort of thing when one makes a query. His service record doesn't show anything re- the Swabey name so it's not worth posting it. I suspect it was just an excuse made by someone for him not to do that particular job, for whatever reason. So that remains a family mystery - apart from what the other relative said!


Like so many others, after the war Dad got on with his life and didn't speak of it until after the 40th anniversary of D-Day. I just remember as a child hearing the cries from his nightmares and being told, 'Daddy's fighting the War again'.

Only in 1984, when my husband started to speak to him about it, did the memories come out. In Sept. 1984 we visited Normandy with him, tracing his route from Le Hamel, Gold Beach,through Bayeux and to the River Orne and Tilly sur Seulles. In August '44, he was badly wounded at Esson, nearby; shipped home from Arromanches and eventually to St. Lukes Hospital, Bradford, where he met a nurse who was to become his wife. He went through life suffering with the remains of metal in his body and eventually diagnosed with PTSD.
He joined the Essex Regimental Association and he and my husband visited Normandy with them in 1989 and 1994. He died in 1997.
His personal story is documented in various places including page 223 (paperback version) of 'D-Day 1944, Voices from Normandy' by Robin Neillands and Roderick de Normann.

I would be interested in the Regimental Diaries and have seen mention on here that Combover and Steve Mac may have copies. How do I go about finding out more? Would they be copies via Kew Records?

Many thanks
Not German????? Why did I choose that name?

 

In order to know which War Diaries you need, members would need to see copies/uploads of his service records otherwise you could be being recommended to obtain diaries that are totally irrelevant - up to you

TD