Churchill Tank Chat

Grafted from the Sherman Tank thread, as it's an interesting topic that deserves a thread of it's own. ~A

Still apart from the Churchill (which while very good in heavy terrain was slower and not as reliable), there was no better tank at that stage (certainly not in any number)for the allies and due to its numbers and given that the allies were attacking most of the time it was used differently to German Tanks from June 6th '44 - hence its high losses.

 

Havoc -
the Churchill not reliable - ? - in which comic did you read that - that

Tank just kept going when all the rest were in for repairs - sure they had heavy

losses as they were invariably up front with the walking Infanty- and six pounders

against special 75's and 88mm's.....
Cheers

 

Havoc -
the Churchill not reliable - ? - in which comic did you read that - that


"Battle" Summer Special 1983

I am refering to the Engine - the Twin Bedford 6 cylinder - in comparison to the Sherman.

It was as you say ray of sunshine compared to other previous British efforts.......and now all my sources about the Engines unreliability refer to earlier marks (although its the same engine for all Churchills!) and now I cannot find any sources that talk about the Engine in the later marks.

But - come on Tom - it was a British Engine - built by Trade Unionists in the Midlands!

As for the Tank itself - given the choice between the Sherman and a Churchill I would chose the Churchill but I am quite pleased that I never had to choose.

 

now come on Havoc - the engine in MY Churchill -Decisive - the 12 cyl horizontally opposed twin Bedford which I thought for some time was a Meadows engine- was also built in the Midlands - Derby I think by SOME trade unionists - did the 1000 mile scheme in Scotland to test everything out - without engine governors - landed in North Africa March '43 - drove through to Tunis - then landed at Taranto in Italy - drove through to near Riccione in the North where we lost it by sheer stupidity - by falling down a mountain - without one problem with that engine - then three or four days later she came roaring past us to be a replacement for another crew .....that was a few miles on one engine without a major-or minor hiccup.....
Cheers

this is how we lost Decisive ....
BBC - WW2 People's War - Green Envelopes for Tank Brigade, Rimini

 

now come on Havoc - the engine in MY Churchill -Decisive - the 12 cyl horizontally opposed twin Bedford which I thought for some time was a Meadows engine- was also built in the Midlands - Derby I think by SOME trade unionists - did the 1000 mile scheme in Scotland to test everything out - without engine governors - landed in North Africa March '43 - drove through to Tunis - then landed at Taranto in Italy - drove through to near Riccione in the North where we lost it by sheer stupidity - by falling down a mountain - without one problem with that engine - then three or four days later she came roaring past us to be a replacement for another crew .....that was a few miles on one engine without a major-or minor hiccup.....
Cheers

this is how we lost Decisive ....
BBC - WW2 People's War - Green Envelopes for Tank Brigade, Rimini

Tom

I shall consider myself well and truly corrected on the matter - also very funny story about 'Decisive' - well done, full marks for getting a 40 ton tank to fly and extra marks for the drivers obvious skill in aiming it at a Jeep in order to cushion its landing.

 

Havoc
it's a bit like that Irish comedian - it's the way we tell 'em
cheers

 

i love the churchill it's my favourite tank, infact i like it so much i bought one to restore. the more i read about it the more i realise just how malligned it is. it got off to a bad start at dieppe but any tank would have. people seem to think that only a few got off the beach, in part due to the engineers not blowing the sea walls but inspite of that 15 out of 29 made it into the town and wreaked havoc and then returned to the beach to be dis-embarked but the landing craft never came back for them as the operation was cancelled. that's why so many churchills littered the beaches of dieppe not because it couldn't get off in the first place. i read an account from a canadian officer that stated no churchill hull was penetrated by enemy fire, they mostly had the tracks shot off on the exposed front idlers.
one of the things i like about the churchill is it's longevity, it had many doubters but went on to serve in the british army into the sixties, i also own a cromwell and a centaur aswell as a canadian mk1 carrier but the churchill is where my heart is, you can keep the rest (although the cromwell is pretty sexy)

all the best

rick

ps. thanks tom for the insight into your old churchill, decisive. can you tell me what mark she was

 

Rick - it was a MKIV - six pounder - never had a minutes trouble with it - it's replacement was also MKIV same again no trouble - most of the regiment had MkIV's so did most of the brigade of 145th RAC 12th RTR and 48th RTR as were the 25th bde - Gerry's mob of NIH - 51st RTR and 142nd RAC - so around 400 Churchills charging around Italy but sadly we lost our share to the dreaded 88.s

Cheers - good luck with your restoration

 

thanks for taking the time to reply tom, my churchill has the cast turret but no gun although it does still have the mantlet in the turret so it could have been a mk 4 or mk6. i'd be happy with either one, i suppose the availability of gun will decide which mark i restore it too.
i always think it's a shame they never fitted a bigger gun to the churchill earlier on, which could have evened things up a bit but the black prince came too late for you fella's or for anyone else. it's to your credit that not only did you face the enemy but you defeated them with what you had to hand and that has earned the respect of many a man since.
few pics of my churchill that was bought for it's scrap price but don't let that fool you i'll get the old girl up and running again soon enough.

rick

 

Rick, Sound great. Be sure and post pics of your work as it progresses.

 

Rick -
I would have to guess that - maybe - perhaps - you have a big job in hand there by the look of those bogie wheels - the drivers escape door on pic #2- would lead me to believe that you have a MKiv there......so the very best of luck with your task.

Cheers

 

hi fella's
thanks for the info on the drivers escape door tom, i haven't had chance to look at it properly yet as it's still sitting on the farm of the guy that sold it to me, it's been there 7 months luckily he's an understanding bloke and has let me keep it there for a while longer til i can get some decent storage for it but i'm itching to get to grips with it (i like a challenge) when i do i'll keep you all posted.

all the best

rick

 

I totally agree. I mean a lot of bad thigns have been said about it, but I see it as a very sturdy vehicle compared to what else was around, not least that many Germans feared the thing above anything else on the Western Front (normal and obviously the terrific Crocodile.)

'Death of a Regiment' solidifed this, and hearing crew recollections, and another of my relatives who crewed them in WW2 always makes me smile. The most iconic British beast of the Second World War, would give my all to get a Squadron of the chaps one day...

 

Fascinating. The Churchill certainly proved it's worth in Normandy in Op Bluecoat when it cut through the Bocage much to the surprise of the German units there.

Look forward to seeing the photos of the restoration of this tank.

 

Adam -
The Tom & Gerry show was very much in evidence when we met for lunch with that ex 4th Hussar type - Ron - in London a couple of Christmasses ago - it was a hoot - the people at the neighbouring tables were all under them trying to avoid the 88's - and the shrapnel was whizzing around also. There are photo's somewhere of that meeting in case the newbies are interested....talk about the three ex cavalry types - more like the three stooges....
Cheers

 

hi fella's
been a while since i added anything new but i thought i'd show you some pics i found recently of the churchill before i bought it and as some will have guessed it's an avre which the seller must have forgotten to tell me about when he sold it but it makes no odds to me as any churchill is a good churchill and it did start out as a gun tank so if i decided to put it back to a 6pdr it wouldn't be wrong although to be honest i'm not sure which way to go with it yet. hell, it's still sitting in the farmers yard so there's plenty of time to make my mind up.

all the best

rick

 

Rick -
at least it's the right way up - I think that I would get rid of the AVRE stuff and put it back as a fighting Tank with the six pounder and two besa'- not forgetting the 2" smoke discharger....but the cost will be frightening..as will the time...but the best of luck with it..
Cheers

 

Rick, looks like a major 'tank restoration' job!
Best of luck with it, please keep us informed of plans/progress.

 

Montgomery said as an Infantryman it would appear to me that we continue to design tanks and find a gun to put in it, I would find the best gun and build a tank around it.