Commando or SOE in Norway: Missing and presumed dead?

Discussion in 'Non-Commemorated War Dead' started by Researcher1941, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. Researcher1941

    Researcher1941 Junior Member

    Hi folks,
    I've typed this once, somehow the computer burped and here I am again trying to recall all I said originally. Here are a few high points of a research project I'm trying to solve.

    1. Canadian Commando (my Father) actively recruited from Canada late 1940 and serving in a British Commando unit Jan thru May 1941 operating from Scotland. No mention of numbered parent commando unit. May have belonged to one or may not have. Can't confirm either way. 8 Raids in Norway and 1 in Holland during this period.

    2. Raids do not line up with known raids of the period. That is not to say there weren't any raids, there were, but these were of a different nature than the large scale Lofoten, etc. raids that we've all read about. Dad says few, and he hoped no, were records kept. This is what they were told by British Intelligence; "No records were kept for fear of embarrassing those with whom we were allied". Who knows.

    3. Experts (M.R.D. Foot and Gervase Cowell and others including Norwegian SOE members in Oslo and Narvik) examined my personal documents and tell me they were probably SOE driven and almost certainly happened as described, "but you will likely never prove it". How true.

    4. On one of these raids my Dad's best mate (British) was killed. Dad saw it, the man was clearly dead. Pretty specific and rugged details. Remains not returned to UK.

    5. I find nothing of this man in the CWGC records and wondered if, due to the nature of the activities (SOE, SIS, other) KIAs were not listed as such. Perhaps they were referred to as "MIA presumed dead" or some other means of giving the family some notification and explanation of why their son didn't come home without explaining the nature of the activities. My Dad didn't say a word for 35 years and only told me in 1976 because he was afraid there might be declassified details after all and he wanted me to have some idea of what went on from him beforehand just in case.

    6. The man's name was John Henderson and while there were some John Hendersons listed as KIA in CWGC records they don't "line up" with the timeline I have or with the details. There are several civilians and merchant seaman by that name but the dates aren't quite right, but close. We are all accustomed to thinking a man's date of death would be accurate to the maximum extent possible, but is that a firm rule? Would a man engaged in these sort of activities be listed as a civilian and/or his date of death altered or mis-entered. My gut says no, but I'm reaching for straws here and would appreciate any insight.

    7. This is a truncated entry and I apologize for that, but I'm trying to keep from writing volumes here. I will be happy to share any aspects of my research if anyone is interested, but don't want to belabor the point for those that aren't.

    8. I've re-written to the CWGC and am standing by for their response/recommendations.

    9. I am also in touch with Combined Ops Assoc. and Commando Veterans Assoc. and several others.

    Many thanks,

    Jeff
     
  2. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

  3. Researcher1941

    Researcher1941 Junior Member

    Lee,
    You are well and truly on my Christmas card list for life.

    One is the John's is 15 years older than my dad (unlikely). His files are accessible and I will request them.

    The other is 1.5 years younger than my Dad (a much better fit). This fellows files are closed until 2023 or 2035 (the record conflicts), but there is a method of requesting part of it anyway which I will do.

    I have NO IDEA how you found that or IF its is the man I'm looking for, but while I have you on the line is there a file for a fellow named James F Connell or James F.L. Connell?

    All the Best,

    Jeff
     
  4. PsyWar.Org

    PsyWar.Org Archive monkey

    Jeff, no male Connells are listed in the SOE P/F sadly, but I will try to check the SOE name list that I have.

    Also, I've just remembered, on the two Hendersons listed it appears neither were killed during the war. Usually when the personal file is for a war casualty their date of death is given in the listing.
     
  5. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    In the past Jeff I have found that a phone call to enquiries section is needed to get the best response from CWGC.
     
  6. Researcher1941

    Researcher1941 Junior Member

    Thanks very much. I sent an e-mail query yesterday and will follow that up with a call. I appreciate the recommendation.

    One of my original questions was "Is there a Missing in Action" resource or after this long do they just migrate onto a Roll of Honour as Killed in Action?

    Jeff
     
  7. Researcher1941

    Researcher1941 Junior Member

    Records of the man born in 1905 being collected for me now and should give me some idea if this fellow is the right guy.

    The other fellow I found an obit for in 1977 so he's not the one.

    Either way, thanks VERY much.
     
  8. cockybundoo

    cockybundoo Junior Member

    Hi Jeff

    Just checking, but I'm sure you aware of the Canadians and Commando roles in Spitsbergen? http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/commandos/spitsbergen.html

    In the early years when the whole 'Commando' thing was instigated by Churchill, there were various other things going on. It is well known that a lot of high ranking senior officers and politicians didn’t believe that these would work.
    However with a sponsor like Mountbatten, these secret organisations were allowed to develop in very unorthodox ways and sometimes it was a case of the right person being in the right place, at the right time.
    These organisations, such as the SOE, were allowed to grow in what can only be described as a ‘nursery of ideas’ without any real formal military doctrine to follow.

    Hence why Glenmore Lodge may have been used for training, prior to the SOE & Norwegians using it. A lot of these establishments were used because of someone’s knowledge about them before the war.
    Glenmore Lodge would have been an ideal training ground prior to any ‘official military orders’. This was at a time when Mountbatten was very good at getting the right people in to set up these ‘special units’ and their personal knowledge was used.

    This also explains about the lack of military records. Combined Ops was in its infancy and men would have been recruited from wherever they could get them.
    During 1918-1919, the British became involved in ‘North Russia’, part of the orders sent out was a request for Canadians to be recruited because of their knowledge and ability to operate in extreme weather such as would be encountered in the Arctic.

    Norway was considered very important and the British were overwhelmed by the Norwegians, that having got out of Norway and into safety, now turned up on the doorstep and wanted to go back as a fighting unit.
    The training and set up for these men had to be very swift, many shortcuts had to be made.

    In my experience, even SOE members on secret operations are listed on the CWGC website. That being said, it was years before we even found out that my Grandfathers name was on the War Memorial in Plymouth and he was torpedoed in Oct 1939 and not involved in any 'secret operation'.
    I would imagine they rely on official records, to inform them of KIA or MIA, so what happens if these official files don’t exist?

    There are ‘raids’ I know of, that don’t exist in official records and it has been a real effort for me to track them down. A lot originated from stories, that people considered ‘authoritive’ in their field, said didn’t happen.

    Some ‘excursions’, such as those conducted by the Royal Marines doing beach surveys in the Far East, don’t seem to survive in official records and it is only recently through the hard work of researchers that a lot of these ‘secret missions’ can have their stories told. In some cases this has even led to the locating of their remains and their bodies being given a proper military funeral.

    Even with raids such as ‘Operation Frankton’ (Cockleshell Heroes), which have had their stories told a thousand time (slight exaggeration I know), have secrets that are yet to be told and are contrary to popular belief.

    It seems you have a lot of hard work to do and have done already. However it is very satisfying to reach a conclusion and find out that although veteran’s memories are faded, they don’t all tell tall stories and that this is why a lot of them haven’t discussed them before. Sometimes their stories appear so far fetched, you can’t blame them for thinking what’s the point in telling people that just won’t believe it.

    I really hope you find the answers you are looking for.

    Kind regards

    Mike
     
  9. Researcher1941

    Researcher1941 Junior Member

    Mike,
    I have somehow missed your post until now....I was combing back through posts for something else and just found it. Damn I wish I had read this sooner; my apologies. I concur with what you've written and have come to the same conclusions in many instances myself. Thank you for that....I'm so tired of authorities telling me I've "got my hat on crooked". Not all have, but enough who think if "it isn't already in the archives it didn't happen". Maddening.

    I am working several angles.....there seem to be absolutely NO straight lines in this research....I have just received an initial report from a German researcher in Freiburg who is combing the German files on Norway and Holland for me. A few potential pinpricks along the coast that may be "new" and of course the age-old "Lofoten" angles, but I believe we'll find more. He's just getting started and we've only gone through a portion of Wehrmacht files.....not the Abwehr or SD yet.

    Also, have found what I hope are records that will prove to be John Henderson's parents. Still no record of him, but found the only Postmaster on the south coast of England during 1941 with the last name of Henderson. I found a man in the town same town who used to work for him and confirmed he had a son, but had no details.....more angles.

    Am going to the UK from Africa for a working vacation over the Holidays. Hope to have more then.

    VBR,

    Jeff
     
  10. Jedburgh22

    Jedburgh22 Very Senior Member

    Several SOE people are uncommorated by CWGC and I would suggest if Commando Missions are involved look at the DNI and Comops files at Kew as well
     
  11. Researcher1941

    Researcher1941 Junior Member

    Thanks Jedburgh22....heading to Kew in December to "wade through" as many files as I can....for a second time. If it were cheaper I think I'd just move next door and use the side entrance....too hard from the wrong continent to make significant headway. Will check/re-check the files you referenced.
    Jeff
     
  12. Jaeger

    Jaeger Senior Member

    1. Canadian Commando (my Father) actively recruited from Canada late 1940 and serving in a British Commando unit Jan thru May 1941 operating from Scotland. No mention of numbered parent commando unit. May have belonged to one or may not have. Can't confirm either way. 8 Raids in Norway and 1 in Holland during this period.

    During the first part of the war the commandoes did a lot of missions here in Norway. They could not be called raids, since the missions was everything from delivering equipment and training personel, to sabotage missions.

    2. Raids do not line up with known raids of the period. That is not to say there weren't any raids, there were, but these were of a different nature than the large scale Lofoten, etc. raids that we've all read about. Dad says few, and he hoped no, were records kept. This is what they were told by British Intelligence; "No records were kept for fear of embarrassing those with whom we were allied". Who knows.

    This raise an interesting point. After Claymore (easter of 1941) the Norwegian government in exile were scared of the reprecussions against the Norwegian population. They felt the raids did very little to hurt the german war effort, at a great cost to the civil population. After the burning of Telavåg and similar incidents the complaints rose to a fever pitch. As a result of this (and the notorious loose lipped politicians) the Norwegian government in exile were completly in the dark over the twin operations Archery and Anklet (Vågsøy and Lofoten respectivly) .

    The Norwegian government has taken a proper bollocking for their feeble showing. The industrial freezer thrawler Hamburg (the first of it's kind) were sunk during the Lofoten raids, wastly reducing the amount of frozen fish production. (the last figures I have is a total of 600 million day rations of Norwegian fish shipped to the third reich during the war. Imagine how much more it would have been if the germans could work in peace up there..)

    3. Experts (M.R.D. Foot and Gervase Cowell and others including Norwegian SOE members in Oslo and Narvik) examined my personal documents and tell me they were probably SOE driven and almost certainly happened as described, "but you will likely never prove it". How true.

    It would be difficult. But you could try SOE members in more active areas (ie the western part of Norway. Stavanger-Molde) Ragnar Ulstein is the man who has written the most about these activities.

    4. On one of these raids my Dad's best mate (British) was killed. Dad saw it, the man was clearly dead. Pretty specific and rugged details. Remains not returned to UK.

    This was common for obvious reasons. The parties were small and lugging 170 punds of deadweight plus your own equipment is hard in tough terrain. Very few are buried under their own names. Unknown British Soldier plus event is the most common.

    As a trivia two or three commandoes were buried as norwegian civillians after Archery. They took the places of young men who went to Britain. This was a result of quick thinking parents to avoid concentarion camps. The possible third of these persons is Algy Forrester a legend in the commandoes.
     

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