Hi l,after receiving my grandads service records i am totally lost with the abbrevations etc was hoping someone could help me to understand it thanks leigh....
Hi, I see you've posted the reverse of the central registry Index Card. Most - almost all in fact- of the entries on this form are abbreviations of fuller entries on the Casualty Form(s) B103. IMHO It would be much easier for forum members to help you if you post all the B103's. Steve Y
Hi, Thanks very much for posting his B103 forms. I suspect you may have been reticent to post them on account of the various "minor misdemeanours" on his record but take it from me there have been far worse records posted on the forum. I have both my grandfathers WW1 service files and they are much worse.... It will take a while to go through them and I'm not a Royal Artillery expert - it might help to attract a RA expert if you altered your topic title to include Royal Artillery. At first glance it appears he first saw Active Service with 90th Field Regiment Royal Artillery in Italy in September 1943 but it doesn't appear that he remained with them when they returned to UK in October 1943 as the rest of his service is in the Mediterranean. Disappointingly there is a gap on his record from Sept 1943 until he was admitted to 66 General Hospital in May 1944. He saw further active service in Greece during the post war civil war as part of 4th Indian Divison but 11 CM Battery is not a term I recognise. Do you know if he claimed his medals? There is usually a Medal Office date stamp - to signify issue - on the Army Form B 200B attention papers - beside where his entitlement is recorded. NOK can still apply if not issued. I'm sure other members will be along to help but in the meantime there is loads on the forum, and the internet generally, about 90th Field Regiment and 4th Indian Division if you use google and the forum search facility. You can also search for 66 & 33 British Hospitals in Italy. Steve Y
Thanks Steve y, i appreciate your help. I never knew my grandad as he died aged 38, but famliy members have always said he was a loverble rouge and i can see by his records he was certainly that. I now know alot more about grandad than i did yesterday. I will certainly look online into what you have suggested. I have come across the other form about the medals and will post that now,hopefully you can tell me whether or not he recieved his medals. I will also post the rest of the service records i received. Many thanks leigh.
Hi "Stab in the dark. CM Bty = Counter Mortar Battery'? - Yes it is, it says it in one of the records above!!- it has X List CMF above it. Have a look at abbreviations here - Updated Resource - Abbreviations & Acronyms , download the list and have a look through it. Then what you cant work out, come back to us. Yes it looks like he got his medals - 39-45 star, Italy star, defence and war medal. regards Robert
Morning Leigh, You will find this X List topic helpful in interpreting your grandfathers movements - basically army shorthand so they knew where a man was at any given time when he was not posted to a "fighting unit". X lists (Service Records) If there are any other specific abbreviations or entries you don't understand just post further. Briefly he was called up for Infantry Training 15th Jan 1942 and posted to 19th Battalion Welch Regiment at Burnham Market. He had a brush with military law in late 1942 - date of offences shown as 28th November - IMHO it may be a typo and the actual date should be 28th December - although not in close arrest until 1st Jan 1943 - and was sentenced to detention in early 1943. He served his sentence at Chatham Detention Barracks. Whilst that was ongoing he was posted to Royal Artillery 28th December 1942 - receiving that news may even have been the cause of his breach of discipline - but wouldn't reach his then intended unit due to his detention. On release March 1943 he joined 5th Training Regiment RA. He passed through several RA units in U.K. until he was posted to RA Depot - presumably Woolwich - in readiness to go abroad with a reinforcement draft. He left U.K. 18th July 1943 and arrived North Africa - probably Tunisia - 28th July and was posted to the Royal Artillery Training Depot. He had a couple of minor brushes with the authorities there before being posted to 90th Field Regiment in Italy 9th Sept 1943. As he didn't return to U.K. with them Oct 1943 there should've been an entry on his record of the unit he was posted next but the record is not updated until a hospital admission in May 1944. He is posted to 5 TC (Transit Camp) on discharge from hospital and I would expect to see a speedy return to an active service unit from there but the next entry on his record is another admission to hospital in September 1944 and discharge to TC Sicily. The next entry is admission to 6 VD (that may be Venereal Disease?) TC in early April 1945 and after a week he is posted to 1 G T Company RASC. He would be employed there as a driver. There are a couple of entries with PBE written after them - discipline offences 1944/45 - that I suspect refer to the fact that his Pay Book was Endorsed accordingly. He is posted to C M O (Counter Mortar O........?) 4th Indian Division 30th Sept 1945 - likely then in Italy but a later entry shows the Divison posted to Greece March 1946 by which time your grandfather had been posted onto 11th CMB - Counter Mortar Battery in January 1946. I can make out an undated entry on a line reading "LIAP" - a post war leave scheme for soldiers overseas - which suggests he had 28 days leave in U.K. in late 1945. He served with 11 CMB until his return to U.K. for demobilisation in November 1946. Steve Y
Hi CMO = Counter Mortar Organisation. According to the History of the 4th Indian Infantry Division. 4 Indian Infantry Division were sent to Northern Greece and Macedonia in March 1945. Div HQ was in Salonika and as the CMO is a unit subordinated to the Div (and not to any of the 3 brigades) there stands a good chance he was there. All of the Artillery components of 4 Ind Inf Div were withdrawn to India/UK by the end of Jan 46. 4 Ind Inf Div was relieved by 4 (Br) Inf Div during Feb and March 46. The rest of the Div went 'home' to India. He was stuck of strength (SOS) from Central Mediterranean Forces (CMF) 31/03/46 which roughly ties in with those dates. Hope this helps Gus
Leigh, You may want to contact MOD Glasgow to see if they can fill in the missing 18+ months in your grandfathers record - i.e. the units he served with between Oct 1943 and April 1945. The last relevant posting entry is on the Index Card rather then the B103. He is shown as X4 NA 16th October 1943 suggesting he returned to the North African side of the Mediterranean Sea when 90 Field Regiment returned to U.K.. I'm aware from looking at Canadian & Australian WW1 & WW2 service records - available online at their respective national archives - that more than one set of B103 records were maintained at various levels of the Army. I've seen occasions when there are slight omissions and errors that can only be reconciled by looking at all sets of B103. I don't know if British service files have been culled to leave just one set of B103 but it may be worth contacting MOD to see if further copies are on his file and if so ask MOD to check them to try and identify his units for the period in question. The other way to identify his unit is via his medical records. Canadian & Australian service files do hold medical records and from my own conversations with MOD I know that they are on UK service files but will not be released due to patient confidentiality. The records should contain details of a man's unit on the day of his hospital admission. You ought to explain to MOD that you understand that they can't provide medical information from his records and that all you require are details of the units he was serving in at the time of his admission to 66 & 33 General Hospital in 1944 and 6 VD TC in 1945 (it appears to be a medical facility as he is shown as being admitted rather than posted). I would also ask if they can let you have details of units he was serving in if any other medical admission forms are on his file as I think he may have been in a hospital immediately prior to his admission to 6 VD TC. Hope the above makes sense? MOD are comfortable taking phone enquiries from relatives after providing service files as forum members regularly identify MOD errors and omissions. If you do take the above advice could you post MOD response on this topic please? Good Luck. Steve Y
Thanks steve y for all your help , feel i know a lot more now , i will definitely follow up on the leads you have posted and research into hospitals etc, i will post MOD reponse as soon as i hear. I have just recieved my other Grandfathers records for my fathers side of the family if i upload these would you mind having a look and point me in the right direction ? Many thanks Leigh.
That's fine Leigh. Your best bet is to start another topic for him. Include the name of the Regiment(s) he served with in the topic title and you will get the attention of Regimental expert(s). Steve Y
