Help with Svs Papers: Royal Signals 2 Sqn 15 Air Formation Sig Rgt

I've attached papers for my Uncle Cyril Waters.

I would appreciate some help in deciphering the papers and particularly would like to know what he would have been doing in 2 Squadron, 15 Air Formation Signals. I know they went to North West Europe, possibly Germany?

He was a Linesman.

Anything you can tell me will be really helpful. There is little to nothing online for for theAir Formation units.

Thank you!

 

There are two other threads on 15 AFS: Information appreciated for local history group and within pg. 3 only: General

Plus: 15 Air Formation Signals - Can anyone help? , thenhttp://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/royal-corps-of-signals-berets-etc-any-pics-please.18862/ and 2599556 Driver John SMYTHE, Royal Corps of Signals

They appear often as 15 AFS, so I stopped after the three above. Try searching with: "air formation" site:ww2talk.com

Quite a few threads on AFS generally.

No thread for Cyril Waters here till now.

 

There used to be a Veterans website for Air Formation Signals but it seems to have disappeared.
My uncle was in 4 AFS and 3AFS in the Middle East and Italy 1941-45.
Cant help with NWE I'm afraid but could give you an idea as to what a linesman was.

My uncle began training with the Royal Signals in Huddersfield working on a 10 line signals cables and exchanges then in 1943 became an underground cableman, laying a large cable from Cairo to Jerusalem.
It was a good trade to be in after the war as many were employed by GPO Telephones or Electricity Board Companies.

10 line exchanges were commonly used for Army communications between HQ's as the 10 line cable was fairly light and manoeuvrable to be strung above or below ground allowing for ten telephones with extensions in a command post or office. They could run dozens of ten line cables between main HQ's.

The RAF generally handled signals within the perimeter of their airfields but AFS were responsible for laying and maintaining cables from various HQ's to them and between them.

As in the the Army, cables were generally more secure and reliable for signals (telephone calls or morse code).
Wireless (Radio) was used between mobile units and personnel but suffered badly from atmospheric interference, particularly in the heat of the desert or in the mountains of Tunisia an Italy.
North West Europe suffered much war damage, telephone lines needed replacement both above and below ground.

However cables were susceptible to damage by shelling or bombing, or churned up by tank tracks etc.
AFS were constantly busy in all theatres of war as were the Royal Signals in General.

THE BRITISH ARMY IN ITALY, APRIL 1944

 

Returned to review Service Record Might have to leave it for a while others might help in the meantime.
Dates are not exactly in order I will attempt to sort them out later.
Working from forms left to right for now.

Cttck = Catterick a main training camp near Richmond in Yorkshire, including School of Signals and No1 Signals Line Centre
GS = General Service Corps
General Service Corps - Wikipedia

He began as an Assistant Lineman and after courses obtained Lineman CIII
Line man CIII = Trade Qualification Class III

80th Infantry (Reserve) Division (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
Its is easy to ms-read the bottom stamp it is 53 RHU
reinforcement holding units | WW2Talk

Centre page

This page mentions the X List a major stumbling block for many.
It denotes availability for duties and training.
X lists (Service Records).

TOS= Taken on strength SOS = Struck off Strength

Occupational Classes, Trades, Grades and Ranks

Medical Board category

 

Thanks for the links and advice. Taking a look now. Much appreciated.

 

Fantastic! This is like finding the pot of gold! Thanks very much for taking the time to explain so well. I've not hit the links yet but will today.

Strangely he first joined the RAF (Radio) July 1941-Jan '42. Then a big gap to May '43 when he joined the 61st (Norwood) Surrey Bn Home Guard (?!), then posted to/joined the TA General Services Corps, Jan 1944 then transferred to the Royal Corps of Signals as his papers say. Why the moves and gap? What he in a reserved occupation perhaps?

Really appreciate your help, thanks.
Val

 

Just to add to the query. When was he actually discharged? Was he in NWE until 29 May 1947? Interesting he's down as in the BAOR. British Army on the Rhine. Family story is he remembers being close to a POW camp. (I shall send off for War diaries where I can).

Thanks!

 

Unfortunately you haven't posted any records before he was posted to GSC (General Service Corps) where he was allowed a pay increase for previous service and education. They would have found this as they were there to assess recruits for further training.
I made the assumption from the wording that he didn't actually stay on after training with the RAF for a reason unknown then was posted to Royal Signals.
There are several possible reasons for his transfer, either due to being in a reserve occupation or on medical grounds. One of my cousins went through the recruitment procedure for the RAF but failed at the last hurdle due to lack of night vision. It changed his whole life as they had lodgers working for the BBC who found him a job with them.

 

Just looked at your latest post He was a Telephone Installer before joining up. Possibly a reserved occupation being useful for Air Raid Precautions and Civil Defence. The Home Guard may have been an option to stay in uniform until he could be released.
He probably carried on from his civilian work with the AFS. They must have requested men with his knowledge so he was transferred.
I doubt that it was a medical issue.. Air Formation Signals was a crossover between the two Services.

By May 1945 the war was over 21st Army Group became the British Army of the Rhine. Emphasis became rebuilding Germany. There were many POW camps for a while as they weeded out who was wanted and those who could go home.

The Army and the occupation of Germany | National Army Museum

British Army of the Rhine - Wikipedia

If you have any more pages that you would like explained post them and we can advise you on what they mean.

This thread might be of interest: Home Guard general thread (Badges, Uniforms, Weapons & Photographs)

 

These were the only Service papers we sent off for. His family don't have any other papers or memories about what he did in RAF or Home Guard. Although they are going to ask an elderly cousin.

Thanks for above!.
Val

 

Notification of impending release
(includes reference for future employer)
He obtained a Class A Release on 21 May 1947. Struck off Strength BAOR disembarked UK 29 May 1947).

See note stamp regarding Reserve liability 10th February 1954.
The reserve were required to carryout training to maintain their skills if needed.
Often a one week annual camp, weekends or technical courses for a number of evenings with a Territorial Army unit.

Bottom right of page Discharged from Reserve Liability 30 June 1959.

 

What would 2 T.T.B (or Bn) stand for - see attached from his Service paper. Transferred to after training with No.1 Primary Training Centre at Catterick. Perhaps this is further training? Can't find anything online.

Thanks very much!

 

Primary Training involved learning how to be a soldier.
Army rules & Regulations how to wear the correct clothes (dress) Foot Drill and Arms Drill.



He was then transferred from General Service Corps to
2 Technical Training Battalion Catterick.

(My Uncle went to 1 TTB at Huddersfield)

As I posted earlier, Catterick was a huge camp which Included the School of Signals.
This had many Training Wings for both men and Officers from all Regiment's who required Signals training.

What they did there.
Part of a letter from a Royal Artillery Officer posted to a Field Gun Regiment.
He had recently been posted there from an Officer Cadet Training Unit at Catterick:

"Since my arrival I have been at work all day on checking M.T. making reports on training and starting a long course on self-education in signalling.
I am now appointed Battery Signals Officer which in the near future will involve a two months course at Catterick (blast it!)
When I go there I have to be at a standard of a 2nd year signaller and able to read and send morse at the rate of 12 words a minute, which alone is going to take up a lot of my spare time.

When we go out on these schemes the officers have to lump it with the rest (we are outnumbered 6-1 by NCO’s) and grovel around in the mud digging ditches for cables or climbing trees to make “overhead crossings”.
On such a day this week I was “maintenance B” a poor stooge who runs behind the cable laying truck making the line safe and secure.
I haven’t sweated so much in a long while as I did making these crossings, digging up sods to protect the line, mending breaks and “reeling in” to test the line- and all this with a telephone, mattock, coil of wire and a pair of pliers hung all over me like a Christmas tree".

 

Thank you SO much. This is brilliant information. Great your Uncle had some similar experiences, so good to keep their stories alive. I really appreciate your help. I can write some more of his story now. I may have other questions though as I slowly go through!

 

Any idea what ROYAH stands for? Also where the location 'St.Anne's' might have been? Thank you!

 

Val P,

I think ROYAH is a five digit convoy code, so baggage is marked so and not a named destination - for logistics (handling baggage and people) - plus security. There is a thread on the theme as it is a frequent question.

St Anne's is presumably a location before leaving to go to his destination, presumably NW Europe after D-Day. I only know of one such place. See: Lytham St Annes - Wikipedia Which is near Liverpool.

 

Any idea what the difference was/is of a Permanent Lineman as opposed to Field Lineman? Attached to an HQ maybe?

Cyril was classified as this in April 1945 whilst in either Belgium or Germany. (attached).

Thank you!

 

You are more or less correct he was working on permanent lines on telephone poles or underground rather than temporary ones in the field (battle area) strung up from any convenient place.

 

Looking at Historic Steve's link in a post on 15 AFS: Air Formation units

If Cyril was in No.2 Squadron 15 AFS from July 1946 through to May 1947, would he have been in Sundern Gutersloh ? I don't understand the different Companies and their locations.

Any advice would be great, thanks.