How to use a PIAT

It seems to me that no amount of first hand knowledge is of use here.
I am wasting my time Cheers.
Sapper

Sapper - you are not wasting your, or our time here. This guy shows no respect to himself, let alone veterans like yourself. Forget him.

Having done quite a lot of research on him, including on the ground in Italy, my understanding of Jefferson VC was that he rested the PIAT on a fence post to fire it.

 

A final word.
I carried a Bren all the bloody way across France Belgium and Holland. Sure, you can fire a Bren from the hip. I have done just that. but in reality you are more likely to shoot yourself on the foot, or worse! Much worse! and certainly you do not want any of your mates ahead of you, Certainly you are not a danger to the enemy......Any arguments?

Get a Bren and run at speed with it, for under fire you are not going to dawdle, any running across an empty space is....... FAST MATEY! preferably without a helmet, for it will end up down over your face after a sprint.......With a sore nose from the rim!

You will find the barrel is swung from side to side like something bloody frantic. The mere effect of running with a Bren makes it impossible to fire properly.

Now the PIAT That bloody great big ugly thing...You could not run with it,. NO WAY...... the missile would drop out of the tray and land at your feet.. BOOOOMB!

It would be like running with a small bomb on a curved tea tray weighing in at 36 pounds or more. Ours did not automatically reload, So when you fired it and the reload came! you had to stop in the middle of the fire fight...OH Yea!...put it on the ground and two of you would tug and pull until you got it cocked again, that would take quite a little while.

Then you had to have someone carry the missile. While this highly amusing caper was going on in full view of the SS Panzer Grenadiers. Or in my case the German Paras they would sit back patiently, a happy smile on their cherubic faces waiting until you had reloaded and were ready.
If you believe that? then never go to war matey. you would not last ten minutes.
If anyone can get hold of a 1944 PIAT try running with it under simulated battle conditions in other words... shell, mortar, and small arms fire. exposed you will not live, when you have done a simulated PIAT firing try to load it.......If you rupture yourself? I disclaim any responsibility.
Sapper

 

When this thread started I thought it would be of interest to a friend of mine who was in 78 Div (the same time as myself) but who happened to be an infantryman.
I've just received this reply:

Regarding the PIAT, I had training on it and that was a weapon to be contended with! It was actuated by a huge spring and the only way to cock it was to lie on the ground put both feet on the cocking mechanism and pull, and if you did not do it hard enough to lock, the mechanism would fly back which could do irrepairable harm to your nether regions. The projectile was then inserted into the firing tube and the weapon which had a kick like a mule, was fired from a prone position . It was deadly if you could hit the tank in its tracks, I think it could also penetrate the armour in the turret.I'm not sure about the heavier armour on the body of the vehicle.

What I am going to tell you should be of interest to anyone who was in Italy at the time I am writing about. Part of our brigade ( 36th Bde. in 78 th.Div) the Lancashire Fusilliers, were pinned down by some German tanks during our breakthrough at Cassino and a fusillier by the name of Jefferson who had a Piat stood up and fired the thing from the hip, hitting and putting out of action one tank, the others took off which allowd the company that was pinned down move on to take their objective. Jefferson I heard was put in to receive the VC for his action . I don't know if he is still around, but perhaps if this gets posted perhaps some one will know .

 

Thanks for that Adam, I have passed your reply and the link to my good infantryman friend Ray Sinclair

 

Has the reenactor gone ? Is it safe to come out yet ?

 

This is the spot in the Liri Valley where Jefferson won the VC.

 

I canot imagine anyone firing a PIAT from the hip, the combined weight of the apparatus plus the missile is massive!
Sapper

Sapper you are quite correct, in Cain's citation it's a 2 inch motar not a PIAT that he fires from the hip.:smash:

 

Sapper you are quite correct, in Cain's citation it's a 2 inch motar not a PIAT that he fires from the hip.:smash:

Actually the citation states that he used both, resorting to the mortar after the PIAT. It also worth noting that citation does not mention him using either weapon from the hip. It is only in subsequent descriptions that more explicit details are mentioned.

As to the strength required for using the PIAT, the citation for the VC for Rifleman Ganju Lama, 7th Gurkha Rifles, seems even more extraordinary:

"No. 1 of the P.I.A.T. gun....in spite of a broken left wrist and two other wounds, one in his right hand and one in his leg, caused by withering cross fire concentrated upon him, Rifleman Ganju Lama succeeded in bringing his gun into action"

 

Are citations always correct? My fathers citation for his MM mentions nothing of him being wounded in the face, only his legs (according to dad,"just scratches") It does not mention the fact that he took out a Spandua and crew manning it either. "continued to operate his Bren-gun until the attack on his front had been repulsed. etc" "crawled to to a position from which he could engage another expected attack". He actually crawled to a position dragging his sergeant under cover.
I assume these citations or the info for them is given to comp HQ, for typing up for daily battalion diary?

 

Citations are very sparse, and say very little of what took place, often composed in an office, the translation from Army or service lingo to Civilian talk, does not always agree. I have a citation here of a very brave RE officer from my company. It was the most heroic deed on the whole of the Normandy D Day invasion coast. The citation says very little indeed.
Sapper

 

Citations are very sparse, and say very little of what took place, often composed in an office, the translation from Army or service lingo to Civilian talk, does not always agree

Hi Sapper

As usual, you are spot on with your comments.

What would usually happen was that someone (in the RAC usually a tank commander) would witness something and report it later to the Squadron leader who would write up a report and make recommendations for an award. This in turn was written up by the Squadron clerk and, after checking, passed up the chain of command.
It is completely understandable that after passing through so many hands the complete truth of the event concerned would be diluted if not altered in substance.
I was honoured to know many holders of the MM and nearly all of them said "they didn't get it right, what actually happened was......."

 

Lovely! Ron mate.
You can see it here at times, where what has been written has been seen differently and Bingo!
One of my most abiding interests has been to attempt to somehow unravel the Legends about 1944 that Hollywood has created, for many of those legends are seen by the young people as the genuine history.
When in fact much is utter rubbish
Sapper

 

Could you kindly provide some examples, please?

 

Give examples? Certainly can…
Sword beach was always looked on by the Americans as an "easy landing" When in point of fact. Sword Beach was the most heavily defended area on the whole of the Normandy invasion coast. Bar none! Nowhere were the defenses as strong as faced those troops on Sword. The success that lay behind the taking of Sword was the training, and the British dogged fighting qualities. Plus the Royal Engineers Assault companies ashore before anyone else. Backed up by the AVREs and "Hobarts Funnies" when ashore
My company was given the task (three assault teams up) of opening the beaches to the roads beyond, no matter what, or who stood in the way. They were armed with HE Beehives to remove the concrete gun emplacements, and to provide a path from the beach to the road beyond. Sword was also under fire from Le Havre. Had to be abandoned later as a supply beach!
Despite all the opposition…that was completed.
Ahead lay the large Defensive position of "Morris" and beyond that the huge defensive area known as "Hillman.. Still there, parts of it. 650 meters by 450 meters covered with barbed wire and cross fire from every direction. It was untouched by shell of bomb. . It was at Hillman that the most courageous act was enacted, when Our officer Lt Arthur Heal RE worked his way through Hillman, cutting the wire and lifting the mines as he went, all the time under heavy fire
Creux de Geurre.
Want some more instances? OK.
Lay this idea to rest!
For many years it was claimed that we had it easy on Sword Beach, not true, the following from one of the assault ships log, lays this misinformation to rest, what follows later, is Stan Hough’s record taken from the log of one of the ships that carried the Assault craft. Princess Astrid. Bless her! She hit a mine in the channel after the war and sunk!
The Princess lost 4 out of her 8 Assault landing craft.
Princess Charlotte lost 7 out of 8.
MV Victoria lost 5 out of 6.
Prince Henry lost 5 out of 8.
Finally Prince David lost all 8.
On reflection, the loss of 29 Assault craft out of a total of 38 with only 9 saved, hardly bears out the idea of an "Easy landing" But, such is the power of propaganda that these myths are assumed to be true and become fixed as part of the Legend of D Day.
Hollywood style!
Why is it that the British are always overlooked? NO Hollywood!
Sapper

 

The church at Hermanville was the first church bells to ring out the call of freedom in occupied Western Europe, our officer asked the old Padre to ring the bells, he said "they are shelled" he said "ring them anyway" and that they did, the first church bells of freedom.
I have a recording of the D day church bells of Hermanville church and as they are today. But rough but for 62 years ago? not bad.
Sapper

 

Here is me answering a query. it vanished!
Sapper

 

Well I gave the examples for nothing it seems,

 

I must say Sapper, your word counts for much higher than gasman's as you were there.

So you've been there, done that, but did you get the T-shirt?

 

Man I got more than the T shirt. I got the internal plates that joion me together stamped War Dept.
So look out rookies, I am army stamped and numbered.
Sapper