(In general) Applying for military records without a death certificate

Hi,

I was wondering how much less information is typically provided if one tries to request the records for someone without a death certificate?

Even if said person is publicly known to have long since passed away? I'm thinking of Colonel Brian Gooch of the 55th Anti-Tank Regiment, but the question could also be applied to someone like Monty or other generals. Are their MOD files obtainable in full, or... well, not?

 

Hi,

As Gooch (and Monty) was born over 116 years ago there is no requirement for a death certificate. It would be fair to say that most of the very senior officers of WW2 were of a similar vintage so MOD would not need a death certificate.

As for file contents - I expect you would get the same limited amount of material that is habitually released by MOD in a “typical” junior Officer service file. Having seen the FMP service files of Scots Guards officers who reached senior rank there will likely be a lot of correspondence and reports in the files held by MOD but sadly their rules preclude their release. The senior officer files available in the Australian and Canadian archives will likely give you an indication of what could be in a British Army senior officer file.

Unless the subject was born over 116 years ago MOD will not release any information without sight of a death certificate or other official legal declaration of death.

Steve

 

Something to be aware of:

"Actions for breach of confidence can survive an individual’s death and be taken by personal representatives of the deceased person"

https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organi...rmation-provided-in-confidence-section-41.pdf

https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1202/information-about-the-deceased-foi-eir.pdf

Useful free advice:

Breach of confidence - Court Stage - Enforcement Guide (England & Wales)

 

According to the many examples of FIO exemptions in the first link I'm surprised that MOD or TNA release anything in a soldiers service record. I fully understand the need for confidentiality but according to the rules outlined in the first link of papiermache’s post it seems that nothing medical would fall outside the exemptions imposed by FIO

 

Thanks Steve - apparently I can't count! 2024 minutes 116... oh right.

 

Never look back, but years ago I took photos ( very badly ) of a paper copy of the 28th National Archives Advisory Council annual report, found in the library at Kew, dated February 1987, which includes this text:

"Access to Public Records

5. The Council has continued to be consulted about various departments' applications to vary the normal thirty year period before records are made available to public inspection. We have been pleased to note a number of reductions in closure periods, and also some applications for the immediate opening of records. But we have sought further information about some applications for extended closure beyond thirty years which have given us cause for concern. We were particularly exercised by the application to close some war diaries from the Second World War. They had formerly been available to readers who signed an undertaking not to disclose any personally sensitive intormation from them. We were therefore pleased to learn that the Ministry of Defence intends to continue the undertaking arrangements for war diaries closed on grounds of personal sensitivity."

 

I am not an expert, but I don’t think there is an automatic right of access to a deceased soldier’s Medical Records and any medical detail would be redacted from a release from the service file. However, I believe some details will be released from the Medical Records to check for things like a hereditary illness but these are the exception other than the rule.

 

Hi, I have recently applied for my Grandfathers Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve records without a death certificate as he passed away in Australia whilst on holiday in 1986.
My Uncled tried with the Australian certificate but has been rejected.
I submitted with a copy of his Obituary instead so maybe that will work.

 

Many years ago, I was attempting to research a RAF Warrant Officer. He had emigrated to Australia and, included with the auction lot, were some legal documents pertaining to his will. I applied to Canberra (BMD equivalent) for his death certificate but, not being NoK, was refused a copy.

I contacted the MoD Medal office for advice and was told they'd accept a 'statutory declaration'. Off I popped to my local solicitors, £5 later I had my legally accepted proof of death (statutory declaration). MoD medal office were true to their word and provided me with his WW2 medal entitlement.

I then thought I'd try to use the same document with RAF Disclosures. Initially, it was refused but, after some 'toing and froing' it was accepted and, 2 months later, I received his full RAF record of service.

I have no idea if this would work now, with TNA, but it worked a treat for me back then.

 

My Fathers uncle was in the RAF during the war and he died at the very young age of 29 in the late 40's. As a result very little was ever spoken about him really until my Grandmother passed away and we cleared the house. I found some lovely studio photos of him in his RAF uniform and it sort of kindled something in me to find out more about him. I have applied today for a copy of his death certificate in order to get the ball rolling.

 

My Great Uncles Death Certificate arrived today so I have made the application for his RAF records.

 

Just in time to get the record from RAF Disclosures - a recent response by Cranwell to Paul McMillan on RAF Commands..

As stated in our previous correspondence we no longer have access to RAF records of Service for non-commissioned personnel with a date of birth prior to 01/01/1940 who left Service prior to 1963 are currently in the process of being transferred to The National Archives for permanent preservation. These records can be accessed via TNA after 01 Apr 2025.

Record returns from Cranwell at the moment are copies from microfilm as an interim measure.

Ross

 

I have had a reply this morning from the Air Disclosure Branch telling me my request will be processed in the next 20 working days.

 

Standard service level reply from Cranwell - recently they have returned in anything from 3 days to 10 days.

Ross

 

I've received my Great Uncles RAF record today. Time for some deciphering.