IWM Film Clip - Verson, France, July 44 - Censored?

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by ecalpald, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. ecalpald

    ecalpald Chick LaPlace

    On 12-13 July 1944 the 11 Cdn Field Ambulance would setup an ADS at Marcelet (944688), a CCP at Verson (961656) and a LACP at Rocreuil (978656). The CCP and LACP would experience bombing, shelling and mortaring while there. The CCP would remain in Verson until 20 July. (Library Archives Canada, War Diary 11 Cdn Fd Amb RCAMC, RG 24, Vol 15971)

    Using the map from http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/maps/europe/zoomify138906.html ,

    It appears that the 11 Cdn Fd Amb CCP was located at the Verson railway station.

    (Please, could someone with a better map check this because the film clip implies a location conflict, or possible location sharing, between the Canadian and British. An IWM Film clip’s title states that a British RAP is at this location in the Verson railway station, dated 16 July?)

    It seems to me that the film crew deliberately did not film the Verson station building in its entirety. Are they hiding something or is it just coincidence that they did not pan the camera downward and around? (A photo of the Station would be God-send.)

    I think it’s possible that the shown British medical unit was evacuating from forward RAPs and then delivering casualties to the Canadian CCP which was setup in the Verson R/W Station, assuming that the map reference validates the Verson R/W station. It doesn’t make sense to have a RAP anywhere near a CCP.

    Maybe the M.O. and medics surrounding the stretcher casualty are Canadians?

    Very confusing.

    IWM site at:

    12TH CORPS LAUNCHES AN OFFENSIVE ON IIND SS PANZER CORPS' FRONT IN THE ODON VALLEY [Allocated Title]

    Verson R/W Station filming starts at 5:38.

    Thoughts welcome.
     
    Guy Hudson likes this.
  2. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    The cameraman that shot the footage was Sgt. Fred Palmer of No.5 A.F.P.U.
    PALMER 5 AFPU.png

    The carrier filmed by Sgt. Palmer in the railway cutting belongs to the 1st Battalion Middlesex Regiment attached to the 15th Scottish Infantry Division
    cutting.png
    1st Middlesex Battalion.png

    1st Battalion Middlesex Regiment War diary for 16th July 1944
    Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 17.00.21.png
    Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 17.35.57.png

    Sergeant Palmer has climbed the railway embankment to obtain an elevated view of the level crossing and R.A.P. There is another 15th Scottish Division carrier in the background. The jeep in the foreground, straddling the the railway tracks maybe from the 97th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery attached to the 15th Scottish Divison.
    Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 11.57.27.png
     
    PaulE, Jonathan Ball, 4jonboy and 3 others like this.
  3. ecalpald

    ecalpald Chick LaPlace

    Thank you for your time and the info that you have supplied. Now I know who the troops are. I will revisit this topic as soon as I have time to do so. Need to get through the rest of my Dad's stuff before I return to it. I will add to this post if I come up with anything new. Maybe the 11 Cdn Fd Amb was set up in a different building in Verson, near to this R/W station.
    Take Care
    Don
     
  4. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Don,
    The footage shot by Sgt. Palmer appears to show a 15th Scottish R.A.P. alongside a level crossing on a single track railway, it doesn't appear to be Verson Station.
    Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 12.16.55.png
    Screen Shot 2019-08-21 at 08.34.35.png
    Screen Shot 2019-08-21 at 09.13.32.png
    Screen Shot 2019-08-21 at 09.14.01.png
     
  5. ecalpald

    ecalpald Chick LaPlace

    Attaboy Guy! You nailed it!

    It is plausible that the 11 Fd Amb CCP was established in this R/W station. (In future War Diary reports the CCP would be established in schools, R/W stations, churches, medical institutions and other public buildings, when available.)

    The Verson railway station is within 50 meters of the map reference location reported by the 11 Fd Amb CCP. Close enough.
    See the attached satellite image that I photoshopped and the result of the Coordinate Translator utility.

    In the book “Death Their Enemy” by Bill Rawling pages 190-191, the “Verson CCP” is mentioned:

    “German mortar crews were well trained and motivated, so evacuating the wounded was often under fire, forcing the Units responsible to adapt; thus 11 Field Ambulance found it was better to use its own vehicles as well as those of the infantry it was supporting to by-pass the Regimental Aid Post and use the Field Ambulance’s forward Section to transport injured soldiers directly to a Casualty Collecting Post. The Unit further reported that, “As a result of this abnormal situation, the first place the wounded received skilled first aid was in the CCP.

    This was in a thick-walled building, which withstood several hits by shells, and aerial and mortar bombs. It could be well blacked out and was reinforced with sand bags. Necessary plasma was administered here, and splints and bandages were applied.

    Thus, even the CCP was under fire, as was the entire line of evacuation leading back to it, so that additional casualties were inevitable. “During these few days the Unit had two men killed, and one badly wounded. One jeep was totally demolished, and several other vehicles were badly holed, but repairable. We learned to dig deep slit-trenches and protect the patients by digging and sand-bagging. At no time was the rush of patients greater than could be handled comfortably, and we were able to study the problem of giving the best care possible to each case.”

    If some one is out for a Sunday drive in Verson, please check to see if this railway station shows any battle damage and let us know.

    With regards to your comments on the location shown in the video clip, I think some British 129 Field Ambulance vehicles may have been located there, to evacuate from the RAP. The carriers would be Regimental, but I think that the box ambulances may be attached to the Fd Amb.

    I came across this post from the past, and this is why I made the above comment:

    129 Field Ambulance, 43rd Div - Normandy, Market Garden & crossing the Rhine.

    Discussion in 'RAMC' started by Jonathan Ball, Aug 27, 2010.

    I have attached a page from this post which seems to apply to our discussion.

    I am going to follow up this post with a note to Jonathan Bell to invite him to participate if he has something to add.
     

    Attached Files:

    Jonathan Ball, Tolbooth and canuck like this.
  6. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    Nothing to add but a fascinating thread to read.
     
  7. Guy Hudson

    Guy Hudson Looker-upper

    Don,
    It is still possible to trace the route of the Caen to Villers-Bocage railway through Verson, it appears to be a footpath or cycle route.
    1) Gare de Verson
    2) Level Crossing on the Rue Haut Saint Martin
    3) Level Crossing on the Rue Jeanne d'Arc

    VERSON Railway.png Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 13.52.10.png
    2) Level Crossing on the Rue Haut Saint Martin
    Sergeant Palmer filmed the gable end of the cottage on the level crossing on the Rue Haut Saint Martin, Verson. It appears to be the signalman's cottage who was responsible for the level crossing. This may be the building Sgt. Palmer mistook for Verson Station?
    index-1.png
    Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 15.22.48.png Screen Shot 2019-08-23 at 15.37.14.png

    View along along the disused railway in the direction of Caen
    Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 09.38.30.png
    3) Level Crossing on Rue Jeanne d'Arc
    This is where the dirt road crosses the railway and where the deep cutting begins. This is where I believe Sgt. Palmer filmed the Middlesex Regiment carrier and the Regimental Aid Post
    Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 07.54.39.png
    Screen Shot 2019-08-23 at 20.09.29.png
    index.png
    index.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
    Cee and ecalpald like this.
  8. ecalpald

    ecalpald Chick LaPlace

    Guy, once again, Thanks.
    This Forum is a Class Act. You are one of the players that is making it so.
    It's a little bit early for a "Sunday Drive" isn't it ?
     

Share This Page