merchant Naval war medals

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by devon1923, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    James - no worries.

    Peter, did Alexander [edit* - I meant Thomas] and Thomas Marshall serve at sea during WW1? Does the address Irsha Street in Appledore mean anything to you in regards to Alexander?
    Looking further I see that Irsha street is significant - Here is the CA for ss MARITIME - Alexander served aboard in 1915 his previous ship was EMU. https://1915crewlists.rmg.co.uk/document/211769 Thomas appears in a couple of other CA [I think it may be same man]

    At the moment I can see no medal files for either men. The CA for BESTWOOD official number 135288 for the year 1917 should be held at Kew in piece BT 99/3377 - she was sunk in a collision with LEANDER as you know.
    Sadly Alexander, being in the Merchant Navy, was not commemorated as war dead even although the servicemen lost in the very same collision are remembered on their memorials.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Im sure Hugh will point you in the right direction for you to obtain any available information on this relative.

    I’d just flag up that MOD no longer issue WW1 era medals unless you can prove they were previously issued but returned to the issuing authority. I expect Merchant Navy will apply then same rule. Army medals were sent out 1920/21 to the soldiers last known address but I f the individual had moved and there was no forwarding address the medals were returned to the issuing office. If there was no subsequent enquiry from the man the medals were kept in store.

    Good Luck

    Steve
     
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  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  4. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Steve, you are correct re MN WW1 medals.
    TD, that Alexander Marshall is not the right one.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
  5. ozzy16

    ozzy16 Patron Patron

    could this be him.
    Britian Merchant Seamen, 1918 - 1941
    Alexander Marshall
    Birth place, Honiton.
    County, Devonshire,
    Discharge no 229182.
    Series BT 364.

    Note his CR2 card shows a middle name 'V' (see image)

    regards........Graham.

    am1.jpg
     
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  6. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    It can't be Graham as he died in 1917 in the collision this card has a few clues as to why it is not him. The discharge book number is not right for the time and the 22 Jul 1940 stamp on the card.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    From a family tree

    When Alexander Marshall was born in October 1891 in Appledore, Devon, his father, Alexander, was 26 and his mother, Isabell, was 23. He had six brothers and two sisters. He died on 29 July 1917 at the age of 25, and was buried in his hometown.

    Fact Details
    29 July 1917
    Drowned of SS Bestwood, Off Bishop's Lighthouse, Cardiff, Wales

    TD
     
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  8. ozzy16

    ozzy16 Patron Patron

    Cheers Hugh,
    Realised my error after posting.

    regards.....Graham.
     
  9. devon1923

    devon1923 Junior Member

     
  10. devon1923

    devon1923 Junior Member

    hi
    My two G/Uncle were brothers from appledore one kill in ww1 and the other in ww2,and not buried in Appledore just names put on the stone.i also come from Appledore.but live in Gloucester

    Peter
     
  11. devon1923

    devon1923 Junior Member

    hi.
    what do you mean by, WW1 era medals unless you can prove they were (previously issued )but returned to the issuing authority. returned by who.

    Peter
     
  12. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Peter,

    Returned to the issuing office by the Post Office as the intended “surviving” ex Army recipient wasn’t known at the address given. In respect of deceased soldiers medals were automatically sent out to NOK by the Army but if the family had moved and left no forwarding address the Post Office would have to return them. In your specific enquiry about a deceased MN relative - Hugh might be able to confirm whether medals were also automatically sent out to relatives of Merchant Navy casualties.

    It is clear on the surviving Army WW1 medal index cards (available on Ancestry) when medals were returned as undelivered. MOD only changed this “non issue” policy in 2014 as part of a WW1 centenary initiative.

    Steve
     
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  13. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Mercantile Marine Medals were either sent to the Mercantile Marine Office [MMO] or to the next of kin. I cannot say if this process happened automatically in the case of deceased seamen. In some cases the medal is noted as being returned to the MMO with no reason stated. There are many medal index cards which do not survive and there are some with not enough personal identifying information to determine who was the recipient of the award - i.e. medals issued to J. Smith or J. Jones and cards of that time only showed the "RS2 number as the main identification in place of the discharge book number.
    So in summary, if there is no medal card held at Kew in piece BT 351 for [Mercantile Marine Medal and British War Medal] and MT 9/1404 for the Silver War Badge or ADM 171 for Mercantile Marine Reserve then there is no way to prove if a medal was un-issued. Finally, I would always say contact the RSS in Cardiff if you need to, for confirmation, address already supplied in one of my previous posts.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
  14. devon1923

    devon1923 Junior Member

    hi
    yes i will thank you,
    but wouldn't he be entitled to the Mercantile Marine Medal and British War Medal atomicity because he was killed

    Peter
     
  15. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Peter, Of course he would have been entitled to both the Mercantile Marine Medal and the British War Medal. The problem is that there is no medal file for him that I can see therefore no proof that they were not issued. The RSS in Cardiff are not issuing WW1 medals so you may have to go down the route of replica medals.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  16. devon1923

    devon1923 Junior Member

    hi
    o i see.
    Peter
     

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