MMG in Indian Infantry BN/Div

Interesting to see both the 'flexible' approach to retaining all MMG and switching out for some mortars; and that the unit never matched the UK WE of 16 X 4.2.

Unit WD are a terrific prime source. Thanks for looking this up. I had/have feeling that the 4th, 8th & 10th Indian Divs in Italy were always more likely to have WE which more closely matched Army Council Instructions

 

I temporarily have access to a copy of the battalion history of MG Bn 9th Jat Regiment, written by E. Johnson - the unit's 2 i/c and later CO. Remembered this old thread and thought these scans might be of help with a couple of the questions. If anyone needs lookups let me know (be quick though, it ain't mine to keep!)

My reading is that around June 1943 the battalion began to reorganise from 48 MMGs across four companies to 24 MMGs & 24 4.2-inch mortars, split over three companies (X, Y and Z).

P16 specifically states, however, that although 4.2 mortars were issued and trained with in October, by December an anticipated lack of ammunition for them in theatre meant that the 9th Jats had to return them and deploy to the Tiddim Road with 3-inch mortars instead. Can't see anything later in the text contradicting that point, so there seems to be a disagreement with the scan from Burma: The Turning Point posted above, which has them with 4.2-inch mortars.

P29 states that towards the end of 1944, the battalion handed in its mortars and reverted to the original 48 MMGs across four companies (W, X, Y and Z).

 

In his book "Emergency Sahib", Robin Schlaefli, who served in the MG battalion, 11th Sikh Regiment, describe training with 4.2-inch mortars. They trained wit them for six months, after which unit CO created a report in which pointed out all problems with handling mortars and after which they were removed from battalion. Seems like one of the problems was with ammunition, not with lack of it but with its "quality".

 

So that means by the time of Vietnam involvement they were in 4 (traditional) MG Coys. Absolutely super info. Is there any record of their service in French Indochina/Annam? Or Dutch East Indies and when did they disband? One page notes Jeeps and Dodges as transport. Are the Dodges the WC51/52 size or the larger three axled 62/63. And were these the transport for the weapon? What were the jeeps used for, apart from inter-communication?

Thanks very much for the post

 

Interesting is the Caste composition listed on first page. As I understand it there are Hindu, Muslim and Sikh Jats. So were there Companies of Jat Sikh and are they just listed as Jats? Did the Jat Sikhs have classic turban (sorry for terminology) - differing from other religious Jats and the modern Jat Regiment headgear.

Slight sidetrack - I know, sorry. It's that this topic came up in a discussion on 20th Indian Div in footage of a parade in Saigon, there are Sikhs marching but they are not specifically described as participants. The attached article states composition of parade unit from 9/14 Punjab as a composite of Jats, PMs and Pathans (20th Division 1945 | Page 4 | WW2Talk posts 72 & 75).

 

This may help little. In early April of 1944 X Company of the Machine Gun Battalion 9th Jat Regiment under the command of Major Bernard Marie Davies were used to bolster the defences of Lion Box Kanglatongbi with their eight MMG's and eight 3-inch mortars. Presumably the four
Platoons of the Company each had two MMG's and two 3-inch mortars. There was an abundance of 3-inch mortar bombs held within Lion Box by 20 Rft Camp.
Lionboxer

 

I think that the four Platoons were configured as either MMG or Mortar (ie 4 same weapon). However local cross posting is perfectly feasible.

 

In 1924, Indian battalions had integral MMG platoons of 4 guns on pack. British battalions in India also formed MMG platoons of 8 guns on pack, with Indian troops (peace establishment 1 IO and 41 IORs) attached as muleteers. I believe this approach persisted until units modernised at the beginning of the war.

Based on Malaya WDs, units were being milked for cadres for MG bns in 1941. There was a sort of transitional period where bns retained MMGs as trench stores, but I'd have to check the context as that might only have been beach defence units.

 

It does touch on their time in Vietnam, and they seem to still be on the traditional all-MG basis at that stage.

I'm pretty clueless about vehicle types so not sure on the specifics of the Dodge: can't see a technical description of them anywhere, but it does call them '15 cwt. Dodge trucks' later on, and they were equipped with winches. It seems that they were supposed to switch to a new establishment of 60 jeeps and trailers after Tiddim, but as additional jeeps were not available they retained their trucks throughout the campaign (which they were quite happy about).

As far as I can tell, the Jats split their MMGs and mortars into their own platoons rather than mixing them within the platoons. On p27 it states "On the 29 July two MMG platoons of Y Coy, with two mortar platoons of X Coy..."

It's a fairly slim book, so I think when I get a moment free in the next few days I'll try to copy the whole thing so everyone can have a proper read. It feels like one of those books that might contain nuggets of gold for those with a specific interest in an obscure aspect. Since it's rare as hens teeth and was printed in India in 1947 I don't think it would be stepping on any copyright toes. Will either stick it in the resource section on here (if it's OK with the mods) or share directly with whoever wants it.

 

That's very generous of your time, thank you. You're right about nuggets too. With your comments in reply re- weight and winch attachment it's possible to make an educated guess at the model/pattern (WC52?). So again thanks.

 

Had a few hours free today so got the photographing and uploading done - not the neatest job but hopefully readable. I've sent a Google Drive link out to everyone who posted in the thread and a few other likely suspects. If anyone else would like a copy just drop me a message.

The full title of the book is:
A Brief History of the Machine Gun Battalion The Jat Regiment 1941-1946, compiled by Lt.-Col. E. Johnson, Banglore 1947

 

Forum member Maureene had the excellent idea of storing the book on the Internet Archive to keep it available for future readers. She has kindly done all the formatting and uploading, and it can be now found at this link:

A Brief History of the Machine Gun Battalion The Jat Regt. 1941-1946 : Lt.-Col. E Johnson : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

Great collaboration, PackRat and Maureene.

 

Can I ask where this material is sourced from? My grandfather was Major Davies and would love to read more on his mentions during his service. Thanks

 

Chris, I found his name in the regimental history of the 9th Jats. He is mentioned in my book that I'm writing.
Lionboxer

 

Would love to read it when you're finished, he passed away when I was young so I was never able to fully grasp much information on his time. My extended family may have some materials of his service & unit. I can do some digging if you think they'd be useful for your book?? Is there a way for us to direct message?

 

Chris,

Welcome aboard. Asking families to help with research often provides real dividends. Not everything is in the attic either.

Once you have posted x5 here you get access to the Private Message (PM) option and can start a conversation. If Lionboxer sends you a PM, you can reply.

We discourage the open posting of private email addresses, as bad people harvest them and whoops problems ensue.

 

Hi, yes after speaking with my mother she believes she has plenty of photographs/letters documents etc which may be of use!

Thanks for the information and will be sure not to post anything sensitive publicly

 

Chris according to my calculations you have to post twice more then the PM access opens. I have a fair bit to share with you and would be interested to see what your mother has.
Lionbox

 

I have asked her to see if she has anything (it may take some time before I get anywhere with finding out)