Multiple Rocket Systems of WW2

On the goodwood offensive, we captured a nebelwefer and turned it around against the enemy. The enemies reaction was explosive. Resulting in a message from on high saying...That was very nice, but would you kindly desist from using it.
Sapper


I read a book quite some time ago which related a very similar story. I think the author (I believe that it was in George Blackburn's "The Guns of Normandy") felt that the Germans had left the werfer on purpose with their own guns, in new positions, ranged in of this piece just waiting for someone to pull the trigger on it.

 

I have seen pictures of the multiple rocket launchers used by the RA and I seem to remember that on one photo there were two projectiles hung up after firing the salvo.

As these rockets were fused after being loading into the tube, does anyone know how they were made safe before reloading another salvo.

It appeared dangerous to me as the rockets remaining were live.

Any rocket experts out there that can answer that question?

Regards
Tom

 

Tom

I'm sure it mentions it somewhere in the diaries or associated paperwork. I'll come back to you.

The film footage I've got shows some left in after a shoot.

Robert

 

Tom

Apparently the failure to fire was caused by electrical problems. Pigtails were pushed in at the bottom of the rocket (sometimes not sufficiently enough to fire), connected to a long cable which went back to a firing mechanism a short distance away. It was battery operated as well with a short operating life.

A Light Aid Detachment (REME) unit dealt with these problems and the good thing is that there were no men killed whilst the equipment was in use. Only one was completely destroyed and that by one of our own Spitfires who dropped a bomb on it's own side.

By April 1945, the firing failure rate had increased to 50% necessitating regular overhaul of the equipment. After the war was over, this equipment was never used again. There were only ever 24 of these made, of two different sizes and manufactured by different companies.

Robert

 

Robert,

Thanks for the very thorough answer, which is greatly appreciated.

Regards
Tom

 

Tom

One detail I forgot to mention. On the rocket's warhead, there is a screw on cap which was only removed prior to firing to prevent premature detonation. They had to put this back on first as a safety precaution.

Attached is a colour picture of the only surviving one with the caps in place.

 

......One detail I forgot to mention. On the rocket's warhead, there is a screw on cap which was only removed prior to firing to prevent premature detonation. They had to put this back on first as a safety precaution.

Attached is a colour picture of the only surviving one with the caps in place.....

Robert, what means/significate of these green and red rings painted in the top of the rocket?






Jan.

 

JAn

I don't know for certain and can only guess.

Red line - Danger
Green line - Safe

 

No, the shell markings have to do with the type of filling etc. Here goes.

From Ian Hogg's British and American Artillery of WW2

AMMUNITION MARKINGS

The ammunition marking system used by the British Army was put together in the 1870s. It was sub¬sequently modified and adapted as new ammunition types came along, which put it under some strain during the First World War, and completely wrecked it during the Second. A new system, which was little more than a rationalization of the old, was put into effect in 1944, but this failed to make the grade and had to be replaced by a completely new system in 1948. Then came NATO standardization, and a fresh system appeared in the 1960s

Ignoring the post-war events, a full description of the British marking system as it stood in 1944 would take up thirty or forty pages; we cannot afford this, nor, to be honest, would such a detailed exposition be of much value. What follows, therefore, is simply a brief outline, sufficient to allow identification of a piece of ammunition with its parent weapon, and allow modellers to achieve some accuracy of detail.

The American system was far less complicated than the British, but it had grown up in a haphazard way and contained a few ambiguities, and, also in 1944, a new system was adopted which survives today and which formed the basis of the NATO system. It, too, will be covered only in outline.

The British System

Projectiles have to be painted to preserve them from rust and corrosion, and it is logical, therefore, to use different colours of body paint to distinguish between different types of projectile. The important 'Basic Body Colours' were as follows.

High-explosive shell ...........- Buff.
Smoke shell .....................- Light Brunswick Green.
Flare shell ...................... - White.
Star shell ........................- White.
Incendiary shell ................- Dull red.
Chemical shell ..................- Grey.

All others - shot, shrapnel, propaganda, etc. - were black.

Superimposed on this body colour came various symbols to indicate features of the shell. The most important were as follows.

Red ring near nose .................................. - Filled with explosive substance
Green band around HE ........................- TNT or Amatol filling
Blue band around HE ..........................- RDX filling.
Black band around smoke ....................- Base ejection.
Two green discs at opposite sides........ - HE shell with a smoke box.
of shell nose
Black band in front of driving band.........- Gun shell, where a howitzer of the same calibre existed.
Black from rear ofdriving band to base ...- Non-standard shell (e.g. 801b 5.5in HE shell, when 1001b was standard).
Red star on shoulder ..........................- Star shell.
Green band on chemical ......................- Non-persistent toxic gas
Two green bands on chemical ..............- Persistent toxic gas.
Red band on chemical .........................- Non-persistent irritant gas
Two red bands on chemical ..................- Persistent irritant gas

It should be noted that the red ring near the nose was used on any article requiring magazine storage; even a solid steel shot bore the ring if it had a tracer in it. The normal marking was a solid red ring, but HE shells filled with explosive which tended to melt or soften in high temperatures were marked with a ring of red 'X's to indicate that they were not to be sent to the tropics.

Finally, plain-language lettering stencilled on the shell, gave information about the weapon for which it was intended, details of the filling, date and place of filling, and any other information which, from time to time, somebody thought it vital for the gunners to know. This could get quite recondite; at one time there was a shortage of smoke boxes to put into HE shell (to allow observers to spot the burst). The shells filled without boxes not only omitted the smoke-box marking, but had a special marking added to show that they did not have smoke boxes, which struck some of us as a bit superfluous.

Cartridges were marked by having the nature of the weapon and the weight and nature of the propellant stencilled on the side of the case or the bag. The detail about the propellant included the size of the Cordite sticks. For the 25pdr, in which a smaller size was used for Charge One than for Charges Two and Three, the side of the case was a mine of information.

The changes that took place in the system in 1944 were not such as to change the basic principles, and the information given above can be taken as correct for the entire period of the war.

The U.S. System

The pre-war American system also based the shell identification on body colours.

High-explosive shell ...............- Yellow.
Low-explosive - e.g. shrapnel. - Red.
Chemical (including smoke) .....- Blue-grey,
Practice & dummy .................- Black.

The only symbols added were from two to six small squares painted close to the shell nose to indicate whether it was of correct nominal weight (three squares) or more or less, so that the gunners could apply a correction, and various coloured bands around chemical shell to indicate the contents. These were red and green for poison gas, using the same system as outlined above for Britain (Britain adopted the American system since it was simpler than the original British method) and a yellow band for a smoke shell. Further information as to the type of gun, explosive filler, and manufacture were stencilled in plain letters on the shell. The accom¬panying drawing indicates these details.

Cartridges were marked simply with the nature of the weapon, the lot number of the powder, and the powder maker; other information was supplied on a printed label attached to the cartridge, or in the packing box. Cased charges for guns also had black bands around the body, or stripes on the base to indicate service or reduced charges.

In 1944, the projectile marking system was changed, insofar as the basic body colours were concerned, to the following.

High-explosive ............- Olive drab.
Armour-piercing shell ...- Olive drab.
AP without explosive ...- Black.
Smoke & chemical .......- Grey.
Practice ....................- Blue.
Shrapnel ...................- Red.

The remainder of the marking system remained the same, except that the colour, in which the details were stencilled on the shell, changed so as to give the desired contrast; explosive and chemical shells had their markings in yellow, AP and practice in white, shrapnel in black. Shortly after the introduction of the system, illuminating (star) shells were introduced, and these were given white as their basic colour, with black stencilling.

AP without explosive ...- Black.
Smoke & chemical .......- Grey.
Practice ....................- Blue.
Shrapnel ...................- Red.

The remainder of the marking system remained the same, except that the colour, in which the details were stencilled on the shell, changed so as to give the desired contrast; explosive and chemical shells had their markings in yellow, AP and practice in white, shrapnel in black. Shortly after the introduction of the system, illuminating (star) shells were introduced, and these were given white as their basic colour, with black stencilling.

Image 1: Typical markings on a British high-explosive shell of the war period.

1. Top of plug to be painted blue; 2. Ring of red crosses when suitable for hot climates, otherwise a plain red ring; 3. Calibre and mark as applicable; 4. Two green discs stencilled diametrically opposite on shell fitted with smoke box. 'A' or 'B' stencilled on discs denotes type of smoke box; 5. Series number in ring distinguishing filled lot; 6. Design number of method of filling; 7. Fraction when filled other than 80/20; 8. Green band; 9. Body painted buff colour; 10. Two longi-tudinal black stripes, diametrically opposite, on the 4.5in howitzer shell (denoting shell is fitted with economy type driving band); 11. Date of filling (month and year); 12. Monogram of firm or station filling.



Image 2: Markings on an American high-explosive shell; this picture shows the system in force in 1941, when the shell was yellow with black markings. The only important changes that took place during the war were the change of colour to olive drab with yellow stencilling; the removal of item 3 (the mean weight); and the addition of an Ammunition Identification Code symbol (e.g. P1EAA) on the body of the shell above the driving band.

1. Adapter may or may not be painted; 2. Weight zone marks; 3. Mean or normal weight of shell (unfuzed) in pounds; 4. Calibre and type of cannon (G —gun; H —howitzer). GH is the authorized marking for shell interchangeable in gun or howitzer; 5. Filler. Initials indicate kind of explosive. May be as shown or AM 50-50 or AM 80-20, for Amatol loaded shell; 6. Lot number of filled shell; 7. Mark number of shell; 8. Calibre and type of cannon, mark number of shell, initials or symbol of machining plant and inspection stamps (stamped on shell under paint), Note: All stencilling is with black paint.

 

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Thanks, Robert!

.....
Thanks, Miguel! Very, very interesting informations inside....!




Jan.

 

Thanks for that info Za. Better than my guess, that's for sure.

Cheers - Robert

 

Ah, young grasshopper, before the Internet there were things the Ancients used to call books

If the plural of goose is geese, why isn't the plural of book beek? Carzy Limeys!

 

Ah, young grasshopper, before the Internet there were things the Ancients used to call books

If the plural of goose is geese, why isn't the plural of book beek? Carzy Limeys!

Young grasshopper! I'll concede on that one, only just though.

 

Now for something completely different: a German multiple mortar !!!



Northern France, Atlantic Coast, Riva Bella (???), loading a multiple 8cm mortar on a Maultier chassis.



Gefreiter Schultz aiming the damned thing by eye, time to get lost!

 

I'm sure I posted those pictures on another thread, there should be some of Rommel and some others doing a look see day with the unit. There's also a Frech Half Track with a MRLS on the back and a rather brilliant shot of the explosions on Sword Beach before the invasion

 

Not impossible, but mine had funnier captions :indexCANAHAIH:

 

Looking back through this thread there are a number of references to the German Nebelwerfers. In my own rather (im)modest opinion, these were pretty much surpassed by something else much more powerful and abundant.

 

Well to clear up a few things. The weapon that is refered to as the Land Matress here is not its original name. Originally in the service it was called the Mattress Mary. It's primary inventor was Brigadier Michael Wardell. The priliminary range test were done at Salisbury Plain north of Southampton England. At which time its enitial range was about 8000 yeards as it was demonstrated to My Great Grandfather Lt. Col Eric Harris. The two gentelment at this point perfected the tubes rifeling them and increased to range to be able to hit a target five miles away. The original name came from describing the overal effect of the weapon. It was said to have a Mattressing effect on its targets. Wardell first took it to The UK Brass high command and his weapon was turned down. Its test firing was not very accurate. But after Lt. Col Harris and Wardel refined the weapon and took it to the Canadians to get approval this weapon began to see service. There is an article in the London Free Press from Saturday, Sept 6th, 1958 entitled " London's Col Harris Lifts the shroud from 14 year old secret weapon". this article pretty much explains the origin of this weapon. As a side bar both Wardel and my Great Grand Father were awarded the medal " Officer " in the Order of the British Empire. This weapon was said to be a completley demoralizing weapon to teh enemy as it completley wiped out its targets. If an area was held by the enemy and this weapon was utilized no one was left standing.

 

Hi Irisher and welcome.

Do you have a copy of that article from the London Free Press. I'm interested as 2 batteries of my Dad's unit operated the land mattress. Would be nice to have a copy to go with all of my research.

I presume you have read this small booklet about the weapon. It mentions your Great Grandfather. It finishes with the comment that without his and Wardell's persistence, the weapon would never have seen wartime service.

Thanks - Robert