Having received a relation's Service Records today, I wonder if anyone here could help me with some questions on the records. Do the records show when he landed in Italy? Do the records show WHY he spent time in hospital? What other information can be gleaned from the records? Is it the diary of Unit 3 DBRE that I should be looking for further information? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks in anticipation, J Upton View attachment 145027
Hi, Have you posted all the forms you received from MOD? Did you receive his Army Form B 200D? That is the enrolment form completed when he was enlisted and subject to regular update in his service. It usually gives a breakdown of service locations and dates - ie Home, North Africa, Italy, etc. That form is also usually stamped with the medal entitlement and the date they were issued if they were claimed. There is no date of posting to Italy on the posted forms. MOD do have details of hospital treatment on the files but do not release them unless in "exceptional circumstances". Canada do release medical forms on WW1 & WW2 files. All you have are details of hospital admissions. If you search the hospitals on the internet you will find locations. I've never seen the AF W3040 on a file before so you were lucky to get that one. I would suggest that he probably went to Italy sometime after his posting to RE Docks Group but you would need to have sight of their War Diaries. Posting to Villach, Austria after UK leave suggests he had been in Italy. Good Luck Steve Y EDIT 9pm I see you have posted a couple of extra forms. The shorthand on the rear AF B102 gives you details of his movements and references to "CMF" suggest presence in Italy as does his own statement on the pre release medical form. I think 3 DBRE are Number 3 Dispersal (Base) Royal Engineers no War Diary there - it is the various Dock Groups mentioned that you should look for.
It appears that he was from Co Westmeath in the Republic of Ireland, but attested (joined up) in Omagh, Northern Ireland, joining the Pioneer Corps on 20 January 1942. He disembarked in North Africa on 6 December 1942. He was awarded the Africa Star with 1st Army clasp, so probably served in Algeria and Tunisia (or thereabouts). The first mention of him being in Italy (or rather in that theatre of war) is the reference to CMF on the third attachment, dated 1 September 1944. It looks like he spent time retraining in North Africa on transfer from the Pioneer Corps to the Royal Engineers (w.e.f. 6 November 1943) leading up to 1 September 1944. He is reported on the last attachment as having served in North Africa and Italy; totalling 3 years 9 months. NB. As Steve Y has mentioned, some of his time in CMF may indeed have been in Austria. That said, he should certainly also be entitled to the Italy Star... He was in various units throughout his service and you may need to obtain the War Diaries for those units to understand exactly where his unit (and therefore, he) was; for the most part. There are a couple of forum members who do a War Diary copying service. Revert if you require those details! Best, Steve.
Hi JUpton 3 DBRE - this is No 3 (Holding) Depot Battalion R.E. No 3 (Holding) DBRE - I hold my dad's discharge papers and this shows he was posted to D Coy, 3 (Holding) DBRE, Halifax before being finally discharged. As it name suggests, it seems that RE soldiers were posted to the strength of No 3 (Holding) Depot Battalion RE pending discharge. Out of interest, there are other posts both on this forum, and others, which quote records showing No 3 (LoC) DBRE in 1940 - i.e Lines of Communication - so it appears that its purpose changed during the war. Steve
Steve, Thanks for definitive answer for 3 DBRE. I knew from other service records that the last unit listed would be the place where a soldier was demobbed rather than an active overseas unit but wasn't sure about that particular acronym. Steve Y
Looks like there is a MID. Italy 12/07/44 ? You might need an extract from the relevant war diary to see what that's about. Would interested to know what the mention was for. David
David, You may be right but isn't it usual to see a LG reference/date as well as the award abbreviation on the service record? It may just be a random entry by an Army clerk Steve
David, You may be right but isn't it usual to see a LG reference/date as well as the award abbreviation on the service record? It may just be a random entry by an Army clerk Steve Thanks Steve, I might give the London Gazette a look. I like a good read David
Hi David, Best of luck on searching LG! It's a beast of a search engine at the best of times but as OP has edited the surname from all the posted documents it will be a darn sight harder for you..... Steve PS Below link may help...., http://www.********.co.uk/WW2data/WO373-Italy.html
Hi John, just being courious, do you have his army pay book? That's a small reddish/brown book, that will also give you some interesting info. David
David, Sadly his family don't have anything from his time in the Army/War that I am aware of. They have been delighted to receive copies of the service records that I received, along with the info from the kind responses of people on this forum, as he never spoke of his time in North Africa etc.
Hi John It's only a suggestion as Steve has said, ask if anyone is going to Kew and if they could copy the relevant information for you, and of course how much they will charge David
Hi John, Thanks for posting the document. You do occasionally get a "blurring" of Mediterranean postings between BNAF, CMF ( sometimes noted as AAI - Allied Army Italy) and MEF. Shame that in your uncles example the Army clerk has just left his posting as BNAF for his whole overseas service. Regards Steve
Hi John, Do you or does a family member have his medals? Not found anything yet in the London Gazette, will keep on reading David
I am unsure of that David but have asked a cousin of mine to ask his siblings. Will let you know if I find out anything...
Hi John, Just in case the family do not have his medals, you might like to look at this link, they are as good a replacement as you can get http://www.awardmedals.com/ David
