This thread has a little help, context on 10 Para: 4865296 Private Kenneth SHEPHERD I realise now those who died from the KOYLI would not have transferred to the Parachute Regmt. until they passed their initial parachute jumping course.
Just found an old thread in 2013 by Sussex by the Sea (not here since 2018)with: Post 26 has a course list. I suspect his focus was on the Royal Sussex Regiment. From: 10 Para battalion 20 september Update 23/3/23: PM sent to Sussex by the Sea.
This puzzle gets better! Plus, I should check the forum's contents more diligently. There is an old thread from March 2013 started by a Shaun Chesson (not here since June 2014) and cited in part. My bold!: Sussex by the Sea added in Post 24 & 26 for Course 20: In Post 10 Arnhem2280 posted (he was last here a few days ago! PM to him soon): Link: Chesson So, the accident was @ Kabrit, Egypt; even if we do not have any documentary proof and he moved onto Palestine - which would fit with what has been found. If we allow ten to fourteen days for the jumping course, with no injuries Frank Chesson was there between 11/2 till 21/2 or 25/2/1943. This only coincides with one death on 16/2/1943 of a RE officer. He would recall his jumping course number, not the PT training beforehand? Somehow I wonder if he could have been there - as a witness, not a jumping course member - for the six deaths on 1/4/1943? Error: Added 23/3/23: Now we have two members giving different dates for the course Frank Chesson was on: No.20 (start 28/1/1943) and No.22 (start 11/2/1943).
Perhaps the 1st KOYLI War Diary has the answer. The relevant War Diary is: WO 169/10244 1 King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry1943 Jan.- Dec.(From a 2013 thread here). Idler may have (from a 2020 thread): Ellenberger's History of the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry Vol VI 1939-1945. *PM just sent**.
Good Morning David, from your post quoted above; "Added 23/3/23: Now we have two members giving different dates for the course Frank Chesson was on: No.20 (start 28/1/1943) and No.22 (start 11/2/1943).[/QUOTE]" Am I missing something? (Steady!) I can't see anything (Sussex by the Sea's jump book Course 20 list or within both related threads) that has Frank Chesson on a course other than No.22. And after ploughing through ParaData/Pegasus Archive/Friends of The 10th I'm certain that the 10th had moved to Ramat David at the end of February '43. I think your "witnessed" call regarding any jump course with multiple same day casualties/injuries is a good one, either at Kabrit prior to end of Feb. '43, or at Ramat David from March onwards till the 10th moved to Algeria June/July '43. It is a puzzler. As an aside (for any possible pointers) I started to look at the names of chaps in Sussex by the Sea's Course 20 jumps list who appear not to have completed course 20 (blanks from 2nd and 3rd jumps onwards, or entire blanks in the jumps columns). Found two casualties within said "blanks" listed, both with dates of death well after this course. 3190211 Cpl Jardine W; died 23/07/1943 when serving with The 7th Bn Black Watch in Sicily : https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2076109/william-jardine/ 172168 Lt Burgess W D; died 21/09/1944 with 10th Bn The Parachute Regiment at Arnhem : https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/f...tails/2644384/william-douglas-ardern-burgess/ Lt Burgess likely did his qualifying jumps on a later (than Course 20) course, and I guess his second jump on course 20 resulted in an injury that prevented him from completing his qualifying jumps then. I'm going to start looking at CWWG casualties from 1 st Jan '43 to end of Feb. '43 in Egypt and see if anything can be tied back to any possible "training disaster" for the 10th. Always remember, never forget, Jim.
Have drawn a blank as far as casualties go in relation to any group of two or more on the same date that may be connected to any accident as result of a parachute course covering the periods from 01/01/1943 to 01/03/1943 in Egypt (re Kabrit). Also covered 01/03/1943 to 01/07/1943 within Palestine as was (re Ramat David). Again, a blank Along the way found that Course No. 25 may well have been the first course that 10th Battalion were involved in at Ramat David: "After the selection process he was posted to the 10th Parachute Battalion and then attended Parachute Training Course 25 which ran through the first ten days of March 1943 at Ramat David in Palestine." Dudley R Pearson | ParaData Kind regards, always, Jim.
Kippenberger' History of the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 1939-1948 is a slim version, though that's partly because the full treatment of 1919-1942 is given in Hingston's History etc. Kippenberger does say this, though:
Jim, You rightly headline this passage of mine: It is my error is reading the last name on the Course 20. I currently await help with a Course No.22 list, subject to a few days waiting. An updated deaths during suspected time window is attached.
Hi Guys. Apologies for not saying before that I am infract S. Chesson. I have had to change my user name to crankie (Franks nickname), his best friend was sgt.Frank Bennett (barmy Bennett). I have had my computer hacked a while and lost everything including the things I saved on my external drive about Arnhem. My brother-in-law recently sent my wife he fathers war record and it turns out he was a sapper with the 8th Army in the same theatre of war as Frank! Apologies. Not being the sharpest knife in the box!! I didn't realise that I could search for my old posts even though I couldn't remember My user name. Some things I have found out: A nice Dutch man told me that he had a credible witness who saw Frank and the eight others bodies moved round the the corner from the water works where (the family said) he was killed to the 6KM marker. Although he was a sergeant he was allowed to wear a cravat. Something to do with the accident at kabrit (family think) ? Family also seem to think he had something to do with the SAS. I am personally not sure this isn't wishful thinking. Thank you all for helping out with my enquire. Much appreciated Shaun.
Crankie, I did have my suspicions you were Shaun. Thank you for clarifying this and welcome back. Whilst I would dismiss Frank being in the SAS Kabrit was their base in Egypt, so proximity and perhaps knowing some of them accounts for the 'family think'.
Thank you all for your help. I am currently following the trail of information. Hoping to back it up on my laptop and make hard copies. What format should I use to back up - Excell. or Doc? Thanks again guys Crankie
Crankie, Excel or use a Word Table for the timeline document (the forum prefers pdf when uploading) and a Word document for photos etc. My preferences after some projects.
After a lot of searching I found this. Unfortunately I don't know who sent it to me so cannot credit them
Crankie, The Course List for No. 22 must be from Sussex on the Sea; who I had an exchange with two weeks ago and asked again a few days if he could help. He is the only person I know who stated they had this course's list. A reminder what Crankie's opening post stated: A 'stick' had ten trainees and the course would normally be two weeks (weather permitting). Looked at the No. 22 List there are no accidental deaths the size of half a stick. Only four did not pass the course and exited at different times, with Lambert and Pang on one day. Nine are buried at Fayid for the period 11/2-1/3/1943 and they can all be excluded. Nor do any of the few non-German deaths appear on the course list. I extended the date of death period back to 1/1/1943, then back to 1/11/1942 and no multiple British details are shown. Unless official secrecy has intervened to obscure such a multiple loss on a parachute training course, at Kabrit, Egypt, There is nothing available now to confirm Frank Cheeson's account.
Thank you for all for your help with this question. Do I start another thread as I have another question about Frank being wounded. There is a document I had on my now defunct hard drive that lists him as wounded. He had permission to wear a cravat or scarf.
Crankie, First, I have reflected on Frank's story. Why would he tell such a story after the war? I think it is either part of the Parachute legend, i.e. they were tough men, who mainly volunteered and knew you could die in parachute training itself. Perhaps, he witnessed another course at Kabrit where the wind sheer etc led to deaths. The story has more impact if it is your own course and mates. Yes, I would start a new thread for the wound and refer to this thread as background.
