Robert Kenneth Kirby - 902875

Looking for any information on my Grandad, Robert Kenneth Kirby. Personnel number: 902875. Served in the Royal Artillery.
Here we have a recommendation for an award: Recommendation for Award for Kirby, Robert Kenneth Rank: Bombardier Service... | The National Archives - we know it's him from his personnel number from his Tracer Card. I see on the recommendation for award, it states ''64th Medium Regiment Royal Artillery''. After Googling that, I came across not just a diary of their movements (64th Medium Regiment, RA) but where they've served (64 (London) Medium Regiment RA (TA) - The Royal Artillery 1939-45).

In the image, he is at the top on the far right.

 

Thread now consolidated.

 

Welcome aboard.

This is the first time Robert Kenneth Kirby has appeared on the forum.

You can get a free copy of his Military Medal commendation from the National Archives if you register for an account and display it here. See: Recommendation for Award for Kirby, Robert Kenneth Rank: Bombardier Service... | The National Archives

If you search online with "64 medium regiment" site:ww2talk.com it will find a small number of threads; if you change it to "64th etc" more threads are found.

There is a parallel thread which gives some clues (where you posted a duplicate post): 989990 Private Alfred Turton, 64th Medium Regiment RA: 02/01/1942

An active member has the unit's war diaries for 1941, if that helps. See Post 1: UK North Africa British Artillery Diaries to share

There appear to be a good number of online sources (and a few photos of their guns), probably explained best by a veteran in his short account:

From: http://www.quornmuseum.com/artefacts/pdf/1964.pdf

PM next with some research tips. The tracer card is an administrative record kept centrally by the RA, you need to obtain his Service Record ( details on PM). I would suggest you assemble a timeline document, noting where the information comes from for each entry.

 

Hi Harry,

Welcome to the forum. Do you have dates for when your GF moved between the different regiments. It's very much easier for us to help with documents, etc, if we understand the time-line for his service. Otherwise you will just get swamped with irrelevant information.

Regards

Tom

 

Here is the MM recommendation from National Archives.

Steve

 

Details from the Tracer Card #1

Enlisted 104 RHA 27.4.39
104 Royal Horse Artillery (Essex Yeomanry) (TA) - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

Not much information on this Tracer Card typically messy scribble
You really need his Service Record to know where he went, what he did and when.

x List II ME 26.7.43
x List II = sick (no return date recorded)
ME = Middle East = Egypt, Libya etc (see ra 1939-45)

64 Medium Regt
64 (London) Medium Regiment RA (TA) - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

Y Release 29.3.46

Release 12.6.46

2/T Reserve 30.7.46

 

There is a comprehensive list of the Regiments progress on 64 (London) Medium Regiment RA (TA) link above on #6

From this a timeline could be constructed pending receipt of a Service Record.

 

MM Citation from TNA gives his Rank as Bombardier as does the Citation form at the top.

The Citation itself gives his Rank as Lance Serjeant, almost equal but is this a local rank within the Regiment ?
Other Ranks rank badges - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

The Citation signed By C in C General Alexander is a Provisional MM was it confirmed?
If so should it appear on his Service Record?

The Citation Date also reveals the fact that he was in 24th Medium on 20.10.42 in th battle of Garawla Box

 

Royal Horse Artillery - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

Medium Regiments - The Royal Artillery 1939-45

 

Hello Uncle Target,

The word "provisional" on the recommendation/citation is crossed through.

MM was certainly awarded. Gazetted/published in The Supplement of 31st December 1942.





Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

Currently researching the Garawala Box action not my normal line of activity.
Long before Operation Torch.
Learning more than I ever intended but interesting on a stormy day when its too wet in the garden.
Any help appreciated.

 

From what I can piece together, he may have been involved in Siege of Tobruk - Wikipedia and Second Battle of El Alamein - Wikipedia. It appears to be that he was definitely in the El Alamein area in JUNE 1942 where the recommendation for a MM confirms, too.

P.s., El Alamein looks hot and is definitely making me look at holidays in the area thanks to this weather...

 

Leave it to you now Harry.
Think you will enjoy the desert.
Good luck, I will watch your progress from an OP.

Hint:
Gunfire would be directed and corrected by an Observation Officer in the OP = Observation Post
When an observer called for fire he simply asked for "Gun Fire" from his guns or concentrations
which were coded as:

Mike Target (Regiment),
Uncle Target (Division),
Victor Target (Corps),
William Target (Army)
Yoke Target (Army Group).

 

Thanks for your help! Any info on Garawala Box, just let me know!

 

Hi,

I think UT’s “provisional” is actually “periodical”.

MM (and MC) recommendation on a citation is usually preceded by “immediate” or “periodical”. Immediate award often for “bravery” whilst “periodical for “good work”. If the recommending officer doesn’t select either option it is usually endorsed on the citation by an officer further up the chain or the final decision maker.

Immediate award should speak for itself (ribbon issued immediately after C in C in theatre decision followed by an early London Gazette announcement) whilst a periodical award, once approved, was published in either the sovereign’s birthday or New Year honours list London Gazette publication and the ribbon issued after the announcement.

Steve

 

Garawla Box I believe is referenced here: CHAPTER 4 — Garawla Interludes | NZETC

Map shows location of Garawlah

 

Hi all,

I’ve located a listing for his medals from Spink, who are an auction website. The medals were sold to a private buyer on 10/11/2024 and I would obviously like them back or to get in touch with the buyer at the bare minimum. Has anyone experienced this before or can anyone offer any advice?

I’ve asked Spink to provide the buyer details and how they (Spink) came to be in possession of the medals - I am expecting to get knocked-back but, as the old saying goes, if you don’t ask, you don’t get.

The listing is here: 715 - The 'Battle of Mersa Matruh 1942' M.M. group of six awarded to A...

Harry

 

I think you could ask Spink to pass on your details to the buyer, and see if they would be happy to contact you.

I honestly don't think Spink are obliged to tell you the buyer's details. They may tell you how they came upon the medals but, once again, I'm not sure they have to.

Best of luck.

 

I have tried my luck but I completely agree with you. Thanks for responding!

 

You may consider writing a letter to the purchaser asking them to consider an offer to sell and ask Spink to forward it on your behalf.

Steve