S.S.TYNEWALD

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by jan1, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. jan1

    jan1 Member

    I am doing a bit of research about the S.S. Tynewald. (not Tynwald, it def. has an e). I found her going to Dunkirk and the story about that refusal to go the 6th time after already picking up over 1,000 men. But I am trying to find a crew list for that historic Dunkirk rescue that S.S.TYNEWALD did. I know they were volunteers but I don't know where to start to find a crew list.
    Could you help please.
    I do poetry with Poetry People of Cleveleys and Blackpool groups and poetry for Radio Lighthouse. I have done one on the Tynewald and the night of Dunkirk, so I am wanting to know who the crew list were so that I might convey more of the story. Best wishes xxjan1
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    hello and welcome

    could you post your source and detail which might help forum members to investigate further for you.


    This is the Tynwald
    S.S. Tynwald and the "Jewel"

    Tynwald assisted at Dunkirk
    War service[edit]
    Along with Fenella, Tynwald was requisitioned as a personnel vessel in the first week of the war. Her log was largely uneventful until with the German onslaught on Belgium and France during the spring of 1940, the plight of the British Expeditionary Force became apparent, and she was dispatched to assist with the evacuation of troops from Dunkirk.
    SS Tynwald (1936) - Wikipedia

    regards
    Clive
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  3. jan1

    jan1 Member

    Hi there, I am a newbie so bear with me. On my first time on here, I clicked war at sea and found a thread discussion there about the S.S.TYNEWALD. and the story re their refusal to go back a 6th time to Dunkirk. What fascinates me is that the name before it was commissioned was spelled as I have put it, yet when you look on other sources its as you have wrote it without the e. However, it was commissioned after Dunkirk and became in 1941 H.M.S. Tynewald. But before and during Dunkirk, I believe it was S.S TYNEWALD still. I am interested in finding a crew list of those volunteers that did the 5 rescues for Dunkirk. If you find anything please let me know. best wishes jan1
     
  4. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Tynwald Jan, whatever the Navy may have called her later. The problem with several of the packets was twofold, the crews were exhausted and the military refused to arm them. As it was the crew trouble on the Tynwald was limited to ' shouting abuse at the sentries on the Folkestone quayside' The Master was awarded the DSC for the ship's services at Dunkirk.
     
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  5. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Oh and she saved 6,880 men
     
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  6. jan1

    jan1 Member

    Fantastic Roy thanks very much for the confirmation of that story. I am still confused as to her name. She is listed as the S.S.TynEwald on sites about the ww2, I even found a postcard FROM THE TIME with her on and her name is the same S.S.TYNEWALD.
    Yet, other places modern time call her Tynwald. Now I know i.o.m. parliament and all things Manx refer to the Tynwald name for various stuff but this ship was definitely named the Tynewald during her time of the Dunkirk rescue. She was also known as Tynewald when she was commissioned, so the navy didn't change her name. But when she was torpedoed off Algeria in 1942, I don't know whether she was lost there, or whether she came home and was patched up and then the name of Tynwald came. Or, if she was lost from the attack off Algeria, then another ship would have been made after 1942 and named the Tynwald with this spelling. Mysteries, but I love mysteries. Thank you very much for your confirmation of this story, as far as I am concerned these men were heroes, volunteers and I saw a comment from a man who served on the Ark Royal in the 60's and he confirmed the crew would have been absolutely weary after going 5 times! I have wrote a poem for them Its title is 'Tynewald-Pinpoint the Illusion of Ecstasy'.I will be reading it for them on the 4th nov with the group. If you can shed any light on crew members of that night I would be very grateful.


    Edit by Owen : Removed mention of Bibby in WW1 & created a new thread for that query.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2019
  7. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Hello Jan,
    TYNWALD official number 165281 as already confirmed by Roy was never TYNeWALD.
    The 1940 Crew Agreement for TYNWALD is held at Kew in piece BT 381/1143.
    After she came into service as HMS there will be no crew list for her.
    The highlighted file at Kew is best obtained by visit to the archives or via a researcher.

    I suggest your question regarding your army grandfather will get lost in a maritime thread so best make a new post.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  8. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Tynwald was the 4th vessel of that name for the IoM Packet Company, so perhaps look for Tynwald IV.
    I just did a quick Google Search using "Tynwald, Dunkirk" and that came up with a film of Rynwald at Dunkirk (and wreck of King Orry (3). The Isle of Man Museum has quite a bit of memorabilia about the Company and its vessels, so they may be able to assist further.
    I also found this, which shows most of their ships in service in WW2 and in the last segment does name some of the crew. https://www.steam-packet.com/assets...PCoWinID=8fd51967-1a34-4e3a-96a4-c773f89949c7

    Thanks for raising this, the service of paddle and other large coastal pleasure steamers should be much better known for the impressive amounts of men they recovered from Dunkirk and elsewhere in France. But then, not much was said about the Lancastria....

    Perhaps the Museum would be willing to share its information in exchange?

    One last comment - In her Navy guise she looks a powerfully armed ship, much better looking than the old 4 stack US destroyers... Perhaps designers could have built a reasonably effective class of escort vessel on her design....?
     
  9. jan1

    jan1 Member

    Thank you and I did your link but couldn't make head nor tail of it. The name Tynewald was used for this ship and Tynwald was also. When I find more about it will post it. Rubbish researcher i.m afraid so thanks very much and will try to find more on this and my grandad. Love your poem
     
  10. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    I am sorry but the correct name was TYNWALD anything else you have for that particular ship was probably a typo and copied online where lots of mistakes are to be found.
    Jan, you asked for information concerning the Crew Agreement so I have given you the reference to where it is held - it is not something you can really get online and I appreciate that it may not make much sense but if you need an explanation of what it covers, how and where you can get it then I can explain that if you wish but it will still need a visit to the archives in Kew or someone to obtain it for you.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

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  12. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Noted - and thanks for the separate thread

    jan1,
    You've obviously been deeply affected by the Tynwald story, is there a specific reason why?
     
  13. Billy McGee

    Billy McGee Senior Member

    HM Transport TYNWALD – Operation DYNAMO – Dunkirk Evacuation from 27 May to 04 June 1940.16 August 1940 Gazette Issue 34925, Supplement 5065, published 16 August 1940

    Captain John Henry Whiteway

    DSC - for good services in the withdrawal of the Allied Armies from the beaches at Dunkirk – when Master

    Allan Watterson

    DSC - for good services in the withdrawal of the Allied Armies from the beaches at Dunkirk – when Second Officer

    Charles Powell Mason

    DSC - for good services in the withdrawal of the Allied Armies from the beaches at Dunkirk – Dunkirk Evacuation – when Radio Officer

    16 August 1940 Gazette Issue 34925, Supplement 5068, published 16 August 1940

    Thomas Gribbin

    DSM - for good services in the withdrawal of the Allied Armies from the beaches at Dunkirk – when Seaman

    16 August 1940 Gazette Issue 34925, Supplement 5073 published 16 August 1940

    William Edward Lister

    MID - for good services in the withdrawal of the Allied Armies from the beaches at Dunkirk – when Purser

    John Gawne

    MID - for good services in the withdrawal of the Allied Armies from the beaches at Dunkirk – when Carpenter

    Arthur James Allen

    MID - for good services in the withdrawal of the Allied Armies from the beaches at Dunkirk – when Donkeyman

    16 August 1940 Gazette Issue 34925, Supplement 5073, published 16 August 1940

    William Edward Lister

    MID - for good services in the withdrawal of the Allied Armies from the beaches at Dunkirk – when Purser
     
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  14. jan1

    jan1 Member

    I am in deep gratitude for this list and to everyone for the info on my grandad. You are all wonderful! xx
     
  15. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Jan - is the reference to your grandfather, to William Albert Bibby, or was another one on Tynwald?
    I'm trying to understand why Tynwald seems to mean so much to you, a heroic ship and crew, but so were many others........

    You've probably seen the Wikipedia entry for her...
    Along with Fenella, Tynwald was requisitioned as a personnel vessel in the first week of the war. Her log was largely uneventful until with the German onslaught on Belgium and France during the spring of 1940, the plight of the British Expeditionary Force became apparent, and she was dispatched to assist with the evacuation of troops from Dunkirk.

    During the course of Operation Dynamo, Tynwald, initially under the command of Captain J H Whiteway, and then under Captain W A Qualtrough, had the distinction of embarking more troops that any other company vessel.

    She made her first mission to the shattered port on 28 May, and was one of ten personnel ships that lifted a total of 14,760 troops from the eastern mole the following day. The same day, her sister Fenella was lost.

    In the late evening of 30 May, she was one of four personnel vessels back at the mole and withdrew 1,153 troops. On 2 June, she made her third trip and embarked 1,200 troops, leaving for Dover in the early morning of 3 June.

    The last day of the operation was 4 June; shortly after 14:00 hrs, the Admiralty announced that Operation Dynamo was over. By then Tynwald had already left the eastern mole after her fourth trip. She was the last ship to leave, landing 3,000 French troops in England later that day. Her total in the operation is officially given as 8,953 troops.

    Royal Navy service - HMS Tynwald
    At the end of 1940, she was compulsorily acquired, fitted out as an auxiliary anti-aircraft ship and commissioned as HMS Tynwald on 1 October 1941. Armed with 6 4" AA guns (3X2), and 8 2-Pdr AA guns (2X4). After a year on convoy escort duties around Britain she was assigned to Operation Torch, the Allied landing in North Africa, and was involved in the attack on Algiers on 8 November 1942.

    Three days later the ship was part of a task force sent to capture an airfield near Bougie (modern Béjaïa) 100 miles east of Algiers. At the centre of the force were infantry landing craft, and the covering force included the cruiser HMS Sheffield, the monitor HMS Roberts, Tynwald and fourteen other supporting vessels. The first landing met with little or no opposition, and the Bougie harbour was occupied. However, it proved impossible to capture the airfield from the sea owing to adverse weather conditions. Instead, the attacking force that was still at sea came under heavy enemy air attack in the Battle of Béjaïa.

    Fate
    On 12 November 1942, Tynwald was hit by a torpedo fired by the Italian submarine, Argo. She had been standing by the monitor Roberts, which was on fire and badly damaged. Tynwald went down in 7 fathoms of water, her wreck position is given as LAT:36°51'N LON:005°04'E.Survivors were rescued by Roberts and the corvette HMS Samphire. Three officers and seven ratings were listed as casualties.
    Tynwald, anti-aircraft ship, ship loss, by Italian submarine off Bougie

    ABBOTT, Walter D, Able Seaman, P/SSX 19142, MPK
    BARRICK, Jack P, Able Seaman, P/JX 197642, MPK
    BICKERTON, Frederick H, Able Seaman, P/SSX 30173, MPK
    BOWLES, Sam, Able Seaman, P/JX 275034, MPK
    BRADLEY, James, Ordinary Seaman, P/JX 330413, MPK
    BROOKS, Arthur, Greaser, NAP 188772, MPK
    COLEMAN, Horace L, Able Seaman, P/JX 275036, MPK
    DENHAM, Cecil A, Ordinary Signalman, P/JX 294686, MPK
    FOOT, Reginald R, Ordinary Seaman, P/JX 330410, MPK
    GEORGE, Henry, Greaser, NAP 70220, MPK
    HEARMAN, Edward J, Able Seaman, P/SSX 33745, MPK
    HILLS, Thomas J, Ordinary Seaman, P/JX 321102, MPK
    JONES, James W H, Able Seaman, D/JX 140203, MPK
    JUDGE, Charles, Greaser, NAP 230475, MPK
    LONGFORD, Harry E, Ty/Act/Sub Lieutenant (E), RNVR, MPK
    MANLEY, Leonard, Ordinary Signalman, P/JX 308303, MPK
    MILLERSHIP, Arthur P, Ty/Act/Sub Lieutenant (E), RNVR, MPK
    MOLLOY, James, Able Seaman, P/JX 275028, MPK
    PARK, Alfred S, Able Seaman, P/JX 272568, MPK
    RICE, Henry E, Able Seaman, P/JX 273431, MPK
    ROBSON, Charles M, Ordinary Seaman, P/JX 357689, MPK
    SMITH, Sydney J, Ty/Lieutenant (E), RNR, MPK
    THOMPSETT, James J, Able Seaman, P/JX 195438, MPK
    YOUNGS, Thomas L, Ordinary Seaman, P/JX 314356, MPK

    which looks closer to 23 men to me.......
     
  16. jan1

    jan1 Member

    Thank you so much. My interest is, whilst writing poetry in my garden, a name of a man came to me, and with it, the name of the ship, then within moments a whole poem came and I had to rush in the house and write it down. I felt an overwhelming urge to find out about the ship and the name of the man This may sound odd to you, but I can assure you that many scientists, poets and artists and doctors, all have the experience of this, during contemplations or peaceful mind moments, like mine was in my garden, even Einstein found his theory of relativity during one such moment when he said he just saw the answer wrote in front of him. There is nothing strange about this, all my life I have found that peaceful moments tend to bring answers, in my case it was the name Thomas who gave me the Tynewald and its initial story and the poem of his to go with it. Someone on the thread sent me a crew list of the original ship before it was commissioned, and when it was in operation dynamo, There was only one Thomas. I will leave you with that story, and I did not bring it forward as it sometimes is hard for others to understand, nor do I want to advertise what was a private conversation between me and Thomas regarding his poem, However I felt you have been so very kind and helped me so much that I felt obliged to say more. Thank you again, I have had such wonderful feedback and so much wonderful and interesting information. I wish you all my very best regards and gratitude. Jan1xx
     
  17. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    That's what drives us to help, to share and expand.
    Fine for you to keep your Thomas moments private, it just seemed unusual as to how/why you felt so strongly about it, I felt there was a story there - and there is, so keep on with your (his?) poetry :)
    There are wonderful people on here who stepped forward to help, thanks to them we've taken things forward for you...

    OK, is there anything more you want for "your" Thomas?
     
  18. jan1

    jan1 Member

    Hi kevin, thank you for your offer and no, not at the moment, I don't know whether it was just a one off, sometimes it happens like that. Here is is his poem:
    TITLE: 'Tynewald, Pinpoint the illusion of Ecstasy'
    This is the darkest time,
    This is the darkest day,
    When men fell,
    When women pray;
    This is the darkest time,
    This is the darkest day,
    When unlived eyes close,
    When unborn stillness pause,
    the breath;
    Changing particles of grey,
    To hastened death.
    This is the darkest time,
    This is the darkest day.
     
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  19. jan1

    jan1 Member

    Hello Kevin, I have found more on Thomas Gribbin of the ss Tynwald operation dynamo, h He started serving as a Boy Rating on 28 November 1912. The family search people were so very helpful and gave me more info on him and the crew of this ship. Thanks again Kevin and all. xx
     
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  20. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Thomas Frederick Gribbin b.1896 served in the Royal Navy prior to the outbreak of WW1 and beyond - completing his engagement in 1926. He served in the Merchant Navy throughout WW2 and was awarded the D.S.M. gazetted August 1940. There is a MN id photo of him taken in 1952 so he was still serving then.
    TYNWALD is shown steaming out to sea from Dunkirk - OPERATION DYNAMO - THE EVACUATION FROM DUNKIRK [Allocated Title]
    Regards
    Hugh
     
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