Supply drop for "Varsity" 1945

Ok, so I’ve spent a fair bit of time on the ground there. The other crash site you’ve pointed out was a glider that disintegrated as it hit a tree. The 7 Para men didn’t see a parachute from the B24 as it came past them at almost 0 feet, Alan Keenan bailed out at probably 300 feet, so if this was the queen of angels he was out before the 7 Para guys saw the aircraft.

 

Yes that’s the location. The glider I mention hit a tree head on, the wings clipped the two trees either side of that, and the two outer trees escaped damage. As seen here on Google Earth.

 

Did You talk with Ortwin about this site too? H e found some artifacts there too, or could this be another crash?

 

DZ-B for B24 SDP B Supply Drop Off Point B / North Zone B" is not the same as initial DZ B. Initial DZ B was the DZ for 5th Parachute Brigade. SDP B lies next to the eastern side of Diersfordt Wald

 

It makes sense to me, especially about Alan being taken POW. I cannot imagine Germans taking prisoners at MR2344 with hundreds of Waco's around. Fuhrther more on Ncap I cannot find a crash site in that vicinity. But .. who knows.. By the way I have contact with Betsy on Facebook. Maybe I will drive her around in the area in my Willys jeep. Would You like to hop in too??

 

If she fly’s over from Florida sure!

 

Also, we need a map reference from the graves unit to show where Stalder (the other person who bailed out of the queen of angels) was found. That will determine location within 500 yards or so, and a flight line.

 

Keep in touch: Jellema104@hotmail.com

 

Any ideas were to look?

 

Not sure. I wasn’t aware of the location given by the graves unit for the crew until alberk posted it.

 

Dear Alex,

Where could we find a report like this about the deceased waist gunner of Queen of Angels Kenneth Joe Stalder, S/Sgt 15335659? That could make sense don't You think?

 

Hi Pen and Dagger,

this guy will get them for you - at a cost of around 125 US $.
WW2 Casualties Database | Military Records Research | WW2 Research Inc
At least that was the price last year. That's the quicker method.

You can also go through a branch of the US National Archives in St. Louis. This is cheaper I understand it takes half a year or even longer.

A warning from me: Not all IDPFs contain map references. It is more likely to find these in cases where a soldier was reported missing and a lengthy investigation was started. These "complicated" cases contain a lot of correspondence between various agencies, so there is more of a chance that one of these mentions a map reference.

I need to search for the National Archives link or email address - can't find it now... will follow!
Best
Alex

 

There's a problem - the National Archives at St. Louis only have records for names A - L

"Reproductions of Individual Deceased Personnel Files (IDPFs) are charged on a per page basis, at 80 cents a page ($0.80) with a $20 minimum. The National Archives at St. Louis will provide you with a price quote for reproduction before making copies. To request a search for a specific file and a price quote for that file, please contact the National Archives at St. Louis (RRPO) via email at stl.archives@nara.gov. There is no search fee."

The IDPFs can have anything between 20 and 80 pages.

 

Thanks for this information. Very helpful! Cheers. This reminds me of a telephone conversation I have had with a researcher Mr. Beigel. Will try to reach him too. Cheers.

 

First of all, thanks for all the information. Very interesting to learn about the Supply drop during Varsity. And the research of all of you.
But know after all the discussions here, i was looking at the unknown crash sites. and one is a bit Mysterious. Some extra research about the 42-50545 Bar-Fly,

Here is what i found:

B24bestweb:
doesn't mention anything of the crash

Joebaugher.com:
50545 (707th BS, 446th BG, 8th AF) shot down by small arms and light artillery fire and crashed Mar 24, 1945 on mission to Wessel, Germany in support of 17th Airborne Division during Operation Varsity. Unknown number of crew killed. No MACR.

446th FB page:
mentioned last week B-24J 42-50545 was lost on March 24th, 1945 during "Operation Varsity" and yes there is a MACR available. Not all th MACR's are online with either FOLD3 or NARA. There is a separate serie of MACR's that can be researched in person at NARA only. We researched this crash in great detail and have photo's of the plane at low level just before it was hit and crashed. AND There is no MACR made concerning this crash. We have photo's of "Bar Fly" seconds before it was shot out of the sky by a German tank. All 446th losses of 14 March 1945 are already well researched by me and documented.

Bing AI:
And somehow (actually by Bing AI search) i found that the crash site was rediscovered in 2005.

ww2Talk:
In this forum, nothing is mentioned.

So the question for me would be, is the crash site of the 42-50545 Bar-Fly know or not. And if yes where is this crash site ?
Maybe Mr Ortwin can answer this question.

 

Hello Bedee,

you are right - there is no known place for the crash yet. Apperently "Barfly" crashed west of the Rhine - I got that from this book:
Albert F Pishioneri, “Me, Mom and World War II”, p. 342
https://www.amazon.de/Mom-World-Albert-Pishioneri-2008-04-25/dp/B01JXRGH0M
He writes in his memoirs that this plane climbed with full power on three engines and half power on one engine and crossed the Rhine - then the crew was ordered to bail out. One crew member died because his parachute did not work properly.

 

Intresting 446th FB mentioned even that they found somehow the crash location and photos, but its not published at all.... hmmm pity.

 

I have seen to many video clips, but i think here some new shots i dint see before.

The Rhine Airborne Assault

 

Maybe this painting of Major John T. McCoy, War Department Artist was bases on different stills from a film. At any rate JU-A is Bar Fly...

 

Looks like the painting. Tail sign looks like 446 Bomb Group.