Tiger Tiger...?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by von Poop, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian researcher

    I suspect that Canadian count includes 29,000 universal carriers and the UK's value above does not.

    We made 1420 Valentines, 2032 Rams, 188 Grizzlies, and 2000 Sextons. (That's mostly sourced from wikipedia and the CWM's page on the universal carrier) Am I missing something else?
  2. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Might explain why there was a version of the carrier called the Windsor
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  3. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Ford's most popular OHV V8 was the Windsor Small Block. There was also a Chrysler Windsor car.
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Wonderland Models.
    A perfectly fine & normal model shop.

    'Tiger Tank':
    5 pages.


    'Churchill Tank':
    Less than one


    The Internetz.
    "Tiger Tank" - About 1,880,000 results
    "Churchill Tank" - About 183,000 results

    Ngram Google books word count:
    Annotation 2019-12-21 175538.jpg

    You think there might finally be a balance being struck, but the Ngram's going up...
  5. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    You can look on the positive side though, and say that the Tiger attracts people to the subject of tanks in general, and that interest in other tanks might be even less if it wasn't for the Tiger.
    canuck and Chris C like this.
  6. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Dave....Now you must be aware that not many British appreciate the run of the border at Windsor,Ontario.It's similar to the configuration of the German/Swiss border at Schaffhausen which confused many a British POW escapee....memories of the US/Canadian border from geography all those years ago

    But here is an interesting US tank M4 (all types) manufacturers' production returns at various plants during the super output years of 1943 and 1944.You probably are aware of the location of the plants

    Year 1943...... .....1944

    American Locomotive 2174............. none
    Baldwin Locomotive 1100 .................43
    Detroit Tank Arsenal 6612..............5587
    Federal Machine 519..............none
    Fisher Tank Arsenal 2240............. 6052
    Ford Motor 1176.............. none
    Lima Locomotive 838 ..............none
    Press Steel Car 3000..............2171
    Pacific Car and Foundry 660...............none
    Pullman Standard 3003..............none

    By the end of 1944,M4 production had moved away from the industrial companies and production was then centred on the two Tank Arsenals.The industrial companies were then in a position to manufacture other types of armoured vehicles and the M26 Pershing which was intended to gradually reduce the main combat demand on the M4

    Apparently there is a discrepancy between the manufacturers returns and the official returns....thought to be due to chassis being requisitioned for experimental trials
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
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  7. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Although if you read Stolen Journey by one of the successful "Wooden Horse" escapees you'll see that the issue became well known - which is why they chose to go out through Denmark/Sweden

    The US Canadian Border issue became known in WW1 when many trainee pilots ended up landing in neutral USA. In most (all) cases a blind eye was turned whilst fuel was found, the aircrew fed coffee and cookies and then sent on their way. The same happened in early WW2 but the America First goons raised squawks.

    I live in a bit of Worcestershire - part of the Malvern Hills district but the only way I've found to drive to either Malvern or Worcester has been through either Shropshire or Herefordshire
  8. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Youngsters should only be allowed to start on, say, Loyd Carriers, Tilly Ones & Pz.1, before graduating through weight classes every birthday.
    Teach 'em there are more things in heaven & earth!
    JimHerriot likes this.
  9. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    Should start on the Martel One Man Tank to teach them the need for cooperation and team work
  10. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    The Tiger tank, in a way similar to many German uniforms of the period, is simply a masturbatory aid to boys of a certain age with no social life. Apparently quite a number never grow out of it.
    JimHerriot and canuck like this.
  11. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

  12. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    Acknowledging an obvious bias, I believe the Great White North punched well above it's weight during WW2. For a country of 11 million people the volume of military manufacturing along with the 1.1 million people in uniform (virtually all volunteers) was a significant contribution.
    Along with the production you have cited above, there was almost an endless list of items manufactured here, including 348 ten thousand-ton merchant ships, 1,100 Mosquito fighter-bombers, 430 Lancasters and over 25 million cartridges.

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  13. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    I'll never look at tanks in quite the same way after that post.
    JimHerriot likes this.
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Like this ...

    Attached Files:

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  15. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    You can say what you like about the Nazis, but they provided lots of content.
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  16. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    As someone said, "Pick any item on the internet and someone either wants to either marry it or kill it."
    canuck likes this.
  17. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Harry Ree's response to the above post as below.

    Digressing to the above which lumbers away from the Tiger but I suppose some of the foreign workers may well have been involved in tank manufacturing labour

    Appreciating the geographical layout of Germany and the development of escape and evasion from Germany.

    Denmark and Sweden were chosen,usually by Camp Escape Committees because the location of the POW camps were near to the Baltic than other POW camps well removed from the Baltic.The other major consideration was that skippers of Danish and Swedish boats were known to be conducive in helping British escapees.Further crossing Poland to the Baltic ports there was a very good chance that help and assistance would come from the population as Airey Neave put it "the morale of the Poles is so remarkable and they are always ready to help escaped prisoners".
    Additionally it was possible to take advantage of the two types of foreigners in northern Germany and Poland and mingle accordingly.First was the Volksdeutsche who spoke little German and had been repatriated from places such Bessarabia,the old Polish province of Volhynia and the Baltic states.Further west into Germany,workers from Italy and the occupied countries,especially Dutch,Walloons and Flemish who could only speak a degree of German and a prisoner could attempt to pass himself as one of these.A "safe house" became known to one escapee at Stettin, a brothel which was to the escapee's advantage since it was fond to be out of bounds to Germans and was used until it was bombed shortly and the "safe house"opportunity was lost.At Stettin, there was a hotel which was frequented by escapees on the run and one event is on record that British officer escapees ate at the same table as German officers,there was no alternative and because of their language skills backed up by excellent identification they were not challenged.

    Contrast that with the terrain an escapee would have to cross to get to the Swiss border where there would not be the slightest chance of help from the German population.Security was tight and debriefing revealed that the successful escapee had to have foolproof forged documentation and speak good German...enthusiastic Hitler Youth below military age were always at the forefront of reporting suspects to the police.Apart from the Scaffhausen bulge there was also another unknown to escaped POWs and that was the Swiss blackout which started at 2200hrs each night and would impede those who had not got the latest gen.Some escapees got into Switzerland by taking a chance on swimming the Rhine.

    Roger Bushell was nearly successful in escaping into Switzerland.He was well prepared and knew the German/Swiss border very well from prewar visits and he rested and gathered his thoughts frequently. He fell short of his objective because he chose the wrong option.His mind was on crossing at night but on second thoughts he chose a daylight crossing and a few miles from the border at Stuhlingen was accosted by a German who came out of a house he was walking by in the village and arrested him...the German was a member of the border police.However a number were successful from camps such as Biberach into Switzerland,being aware of the pitfall of the Scaffhausen border.

    At the RAF POW camps the influence of MI 9 aided the prisoners from when J M Green,a dentist in civilian life set up a code system to be used in prisoner correspondence.This enabled MI 9 to convey the latest situation of the war and assistance with the latest information on escape and evasion and from the prisoners any scraps of intelligence that came their way.

    Overall it was a question of the prisoner's initiative,the first point laid out in escape lectures (detailed as Most Secret) before field experience was that the best chance of escape is from the moment you are held in captivity,seize the chance when you are in transit to escape.Escapees such as Airey Neave gave excellent feedback on their experiences which were used extensively in lectures to drum home the do's and don'ts in making a break for freedom.

    Interesting to look at MI 9 overall assessment of successful escapes from Germany via Sweden and the percentage achieved.

    Sweden.................. 29.79
    Western Europe.......24.49
    Ian Harris likes this.
  18. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY


    Tiger Tanks

    "Tiger 131 - arguably the most famous tank in the world."

    For a real collector though I suppose that the hobbyist could focus on somethings that are a bit more obscure and less well... catered for ;-)

    Picking through these: https://www.wiseoldsayings.com/fame-quotes/

    There are plenty that pick holes in the idea that "fame" is "good".

    I suppose from their stats though that the tank museum knows which items in their collection are the most popular and the most "rewarding" for them to promote.

    Perhaps it's just that there is economic logic in it and the Tiger has a knack of getting people to dig deeper into their pockets.

    Tigers need feeding and there seem to be people that want to feed the beast :)

    Novelty Items

    Edit: Facebook.... Tiger tanks
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  19. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Bovington's recent Tiger exhibition demonstrates the draw as well as anything.
    The effort put in was substantial, and if the response was anything to go by, presumably rewarding.
  20. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    They also won the branding and marketing war with memorable names like Tigers and Panthers.

    25 Pounder is such a mundane label. If we had painted it jet black and called it the Shredder, this darling might today be viewed as the dominant influence on the battle of Normandy.

    Tolbooth, SDP, von Poop and 2 others like this.

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