Travelling at Night in Convoys

Discussion in 'General' started by Phaethon, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    Just doing a bit of research for the Tunisian campaign and a lot of movement had to be done at night in the early stages (well most of the campaign) due to axis air superiority.

    Recently I've uncovered many reports of horrific accidents from different units, which were caused by travelling without lights on unknown roads in poor conditions.

    When convoys travelling in fighting formation, was it a total black out or were the diff lights on, on the vehicle in front? (for trucks rather then tanks). I understand that the 6 vehicle per mile ratio meant that you wouldn't get to see these lights most of the time; but I'd still like to know if there was something to guide the men whilst on route.
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Not quite WW2 but....

    Vehicle moves in Iraq at night were dependant on the Tac Situation. I remember one night we weren't using the diff light and I had to drive with the door open trying to skyline the vehicle infront, I was following a 432 so I occassionaly could get my bearings from following the small sparks off the Panzer tracks on the metal road.

    I remember that night very well as it was the only time in my life where I had never been so scared in all my life and I was convinced I was going to die that night.

    Anyway I suspect in WW2 the tactical situation dictated the type of move at night. I'm sure Tom will confirm this either way.

    Andy
     
  3. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Ah me................... those bloody diff lights !!!!!!!

    The campaign in Sicily lasted only a month and at the closing stages when we were moving up towards Messina I had my first serious flirtation with death. As I have already mentioned, I was part of a crew of three wireless ops, and for my sins I had been made the official driver.
    In theory the driving was supposed to be split three ways but in practice the other two lads were happy to drive during daylight but disappeared into the back of the truck when night fell.
    On this particular occasion I was driving without lights along a mountain road between Patti and Messina, with the sea on my left. I had been without sleep for several days and the strain of following a tiny light on the differential of the truck in front finally mesmerised me to such an extent that I literally fell asleep on the road.
    The first thing I knew was this G-d Almighty crash and I automatically stamped on the foot brake and applied the hand brake. I then attempted to take stock of the situation and found the following:
    1. I had run off the road towards the sea but had been halted by a telegraph pole.
    2. The impact had been such that I had literally run UP the pole and my bonnet was pointing skyward.
    3. It was impossible to tell at that stage what was going to happen if and when I released the hand brake.
    4. Peter and Danny, my crew-mates at the back had woken and were demanding to know what the hell was going on.
    Fortunately the fates smiled on me that night and when we had unloaded the back of the truck of its occupants and moveable gear I was able to release the brake, the truck slid down the pole, while Peter and Dave hung on to the tail to ensure that it did not slip seaward. We waited until the REME (Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) sergeant caught up with us and then with only light repairs were able to drive on.

    Ron
     
  4. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Ron,

    A narrow escape and a great story to be able to tell.

    It must have been bad enough driving without lights and following just a Diff axle light in front, but driving without sleep makes it a miracle that you managed to survive.

    You will have to call that incident "The miracle of Messina".

    Regards
    Tom
     
  5. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    So Ron; did you always drive with the diff lights on at night, even in areas threatened with air attack?

    I just listened to one Coldstreamers story where he followed the red lights of the vehicle in front, which dissapeared for a moment, and when he rounded an obstical and gunned it after the dissapearing diffs, he found he was following the signal lights of a railway crossing and was in the middle of the tracks.
     
  6. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Phaethon

    I stupidly forgot to answer your question, which, I will remind you, was:
    When convoys travelling in fighting formation, was it a total black out or were the diff lights on, on the vehicle in front? (for trucks rather then tanks). I understand that the 6 vehicle per mile ratio meant that you wouldn't get to see these lights most of the time; but I'd still like to know if there was something to guide the men whilst on route.


    Convoy "lighting" would vary directly to how near to the front line you were and/or the history of whether the roads on which you were travelling were liable to air attack.

    It was fairly common practice to move off at first light so that by the time the convoy got under way it was daylight.

    In the episode I described above, we moved off just before nightfall to give the convoy a chance to get grouped up but after that it was nothing for us but sheer darkness and no lights at all other than the diff lights which were hidden from the air.

    I show below a typical route card that I forgot to hand in when the convoy reached it's destination.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Algee

    Algee Very Insignificant Member

    Just an anecdote from my time in the RE Armoured Regiment.

    We were on exercise in Germany in the mis 90's, moving Chieftain Bridgelayer Tanks in convoy at night. The convoy stopped and in one crew the driver and commander nodded off, one of them woke up and couldn't see the vehicle ahead's convoy light. They quickly drove forward hoping to catch up with the convoy and saw a static convoy light in the distance. They drove up to it, waited a while and, as it got a little lighter, they realised they were parked in the front garden of a German's house, having demolished the garden fence. The light they saw was the light from the illuminated doorbell and the No.8 Bridge on top of the tank was inches from the wall of the house!

    Link to an AVLB and No 8 Bridge FV4205 Chieftain AVLB
     
    Owen likes this.
  8. Phaethon

    Phaethon Historian

    Phaethon

    I stupidly forgot to answer your question, which, I will remind you, was:


    Convoy "lighting" would vary directly to how near to the front line you were and/or the history of whether the roads on which you were travelling were liable to air attack.

    It was fairly common practice to move off at first light so that by the time the convoy got under way it was daylight.

    In the episode I described above, we moved off just before nightfall to give the convoy a chance to get grouped up but after that it was nothing for us but sheer darkness and no lights at all other than the diff lights which were hidden from the air.

    I show below a typical route card that I forgot to hand in when the convoy reached it's destination.

    Thanks Ron; good stuff I have a feeling that this was the case in most convoys in italy!!! Great story, and I'm sorry to hear about your smashed truck.
     
  9. Driver-op

    Driver-op WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Either in UK or abroad when in convoy at night we had our regiment sign (47 on red above blue, or vice versa - can't remember) painted on the back axle on a white background, this was lit from a small light affixed to the chassis. Seemed to work OK. I remember hearing about a number of fatalities when a convoy of Long Toms in the UK black-out, crashed into each other. The end of the gun barrels just had a white cover over them, and were at the same height as the wind screen on the following towing trucks: going down hill the leading truck braked hard...
    Jim
     
  10. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Phaeton
    Always had a problem in the Uk on night marches in wheeled vehicles with their diff lights - but with Churchill Tanks - it was never a problem as the exhausts became red hot and in a square U shape flat on the engine covers- no aircraft could possibly miss us moving - BUT we still fell asleep - once we were moving over to the coast in line ahead when we ALL fell asleep and stopped - after awhile the MP's caught up with us and raised hell as the regiment was ten miles ahead - we soon caught them up as others were falling asleep also !
    Cheers
     
  11. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Found a paper from my Dad's unit dated November 1942 and under the heading of

    Vehicle speed and density (it states:)

    12 and a half M.I.H. 15 V.T.M.

    What does that mean I wonder?

    Also, during an advance in Holland at 9-00pm on the 24th October, the lead truck blew up on a mine buried in the road (killing a Lieutenant and his driver) and the jeep following it with the Regiment's CO drove into the resulting crater, which almost killed him and the driver. They must have been damn close not to have stopped in time.
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    12 and a half Miles in the Hour. It means they can not travel more than 12.5 miles within anyone 1 hour of time. Designed to keep a vehicle packet together.

    Not to be confused with travelling at 12 1/2 miles per hour.

    I can't say I've ever used the VTM.
     
  13. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    ROB- VTM - Vehicles to the mile @ 12 and half miles distance in the hour
    Cheers
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    From WO 167/128. I Corps Commander Corps Medium Artillery (CCMA).

    An extract from 98th (Surrey and Sussex Yeomanry QMR) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery War Diary dated the 11th May 1940. Advancing into Belgium:

    At the beginning of the march, side and rear lights were allowed, but just east of Tournai, at about midnight, orders were given for all lights to be extinguished, and the column proceeded in darkness. Fortunately, it was a fairly clear night, but, even so, a severe strain was imposed on the drivers.

    The route was via Cysoing, Tournai, Renaix, Nederbrakel, Ninove, which were passed in darkness and without incident, thanks to a system of small screened lamps placed at intervals on the right hand side of the road. Dawn broke about 0345 hrs., the column being then just short of Brussels.
     
  15. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I believe MIH was the average speed of the convoy allowing for halts for vehicle checks.

    For fun, multiply the number of vehicles in a unit by the density (vtm) to get the length of the convoy. Then divide length by mih to get the time it takes a convoy to pass a point. Then marvel at the organisation a road move must take; they really earned those red tabs.

    Andy's earlier post here has some numbers to crunch - and that's only a 1940 infantry brigade.
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Adam,

    From a 1940 1 Div file WO167/190 incase its of interest albeit a bit earlier than your area of research.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  17. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    When in Holland all our supplies had to be brought from Normandy. The answer was to overload by tons the Bedford trucks, and have two drivers, one driving one resting non stop. The ferry service collected everything an army may need petrol ammo food the lot.

    That had to go on for some while..During all those miles backwards and forward, we had no breakdowns at all, and only one minor accident.

    Sapper
     
  18. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Phaethon

    Just been reading 'Something about a soldier' which was by a Coldstreamer, he mentions the convoys lighting situation - 200 out of 600 vehicled crashed!

    Have you got this book?

    Pete
     
  19. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    The route was the "Red Ball route" I sometimes wonder if there are still route signs thrown in the hedgerows?
     
  20. Recce_Mitch

    Recce_Mitch Very Senior Member

    My father mentioned driving lights in some of his reminiscences.

    In England we practised driving in convoy at night. The trucks diffs were painted white with a small light illuminating it and you followed the light in front. The despatch rider was in front as he didn’t need as much light as the bloke driving the trucks. They followed the despatch rider. The despatch rider led the convoys; he had the same on the back of his bike.

    Nth Africa

    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I was with HQ Squadron, we had Anti-Tank guns, we got our Portee’s, we got our Bren Gun Carriers, Armoured Cars and Assault Troop with us. It was mainly night-time driving. The differentials were painted white with a light bulb fixed above it. You used to focus your eyes on one in front. We was 2 – 3 days ahead of the main convoy.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]There were two Portee’s. One in front of us. How did we cop it and yet the one in front didn’t. That was another thing that was a talking point for a bloody long time. I can never understand how we copped it when there was another Portee in front of us doing the same as we were. This was a night-time job and the CO wanted the new blokes to get experience. In night-time convoy driving you were watching a light on the diff in front. The differential was painted white and the light was fixed on it. And that was how you used to go to follow the vehicle in front.[/FONT]


    Cheers
    Paul
     

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