X lists (Service Records)

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by Kieron Hill, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. saintconor

    saintconor Senior Member

    From a Tracer Card

    Attached Files:

  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  3. timuk

    timuk Well-Known Member

    Pure guess: Supernumerary or Supplementary.

  4. BHC

    BHC New Member

    Hello all,

    I hope that this thread is still somewhat active. I have just gotten a copy of my grandfather Hugh P. Flanagan's service record.

    He served in Tunisia/Sicily/Italy with BNAF 1st/8th Army \ 78th Division \ 49th L.A.A. \ 280th Battery.

    His record gives considerable detail regarding the X list, some of which I've learned from this thread and a bit I'm not sure about.

    My question pertains to X (iv) list classification. He was injured in November of 1943 (Quite badly according to my family). After which he is listed on X list (ii) which I gather means injured but also X (iv) list which is where my interest lies.

    In his record, when it mentions X (iv) list, it seems to mention a new unit and/or location. Would he have possibly been put on light duties while on X (iv)? I've tried to decode some of the abbrvs. At one instance when it lists him as X (iv) list it mentions 32 BOD (Base ordnance depot) RAOC (Royal Army Ordnance Corps). Another shows 2 A.A. D.R. and I've researched that a 2nd A.A. Brigade was present in Sicily & Italy around the same time. In the abbreviation list D.R. was listed as despatch rider but I'm not sure of the significance.

    I've attached a picture to provide a little context.

    Any help is very much appreciated!

    Attached Files:

  5. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    Welcome to the forum.

    One of our veteran members Ron Goldstein served 49 LAA so he may comment on the topic.

    My reading of the attached excerpt is that your grandfather was medically reclassified as B1 so didn’t immediately return to his unit.

    It appears that it might’ve been hoped he would recover sufficiently to rejoin his original unit so in his case the X iv posting is a cover all for various attachments.

    I’m not sure about the A A D R abbreviation but as he was originally LAA it might be Anti Aircraft Divisional Reserve?

    I noticed a couple of handwritten annotations on the attached excerpt. Your AFW is not Army Field Workshop it is part of the abbreviation for the numbered army medical report.

    You might want to post all the papers in case you have made other errors in interpretation.

  6. BHC

    BHC New Member

    H Steve,

    Thanks very much for your quick reply! Yes I imagine I've got a lot of the abbreviations wrong. The MoD provided a list of "useful" acronyms but without context I would definitely have a hard time decoding. I'll work on posting more images.

  7. BHC

    BHC New Member

    Here are some captures of parts of my grandfather service record. They are unmarked for clarity. There is more, but these seem to contain the most detail in one area. Again, the X List portion near the end seems to be most confusing.


    Attached Files:

  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Copied from another thread and for NZ troops but would be based on the British/Commonwealth general system

    All personnel of 2 NZEF are held on the posted strength of a unit or are carried on the “X” list.
    13. The “X” list is maintained in 5 sections, and all transfers to and from it – or from one section of it to another – are carried out by 2 Ech*. Units will, of course, casualty movements within the sections of, or involving transfer to, or from the “X” list, but 2 Ech will be the deciding authority on all questions concerning the “X” list.
    14. THE X (i) LIST comprises all ranks posted to fill vacancies in authorised WEs [War Establishments] of a 2 NZEF Headquarters or a 2 NZEF extra-regimental unit (such as a base depot, school etc.). An officer placed in X (i) list will be seconded.
    15. THE X (ii) LIST comprises all ranks evacuated on medical grounds beyond RAP [Regimental Aid Post]. Personnel so evacuated cease to be on the effective strength of their units. Temporary or acting rank will be relinquished 28 days after being so transferred to X (ii) list. Personnel remain in X (ii) list until they are classified as fit for posting by NZ Reception Depot (when they are transferred to the X (iv) list of their corps and marched out to the appropriate training depot), or until discharged by a medical unit direct to their original units. Personnel who, after evacuation beyond RAP are medically graded 1A or lower remain on X (ii) list until they are either (a) placed on NZ Roll, or (b) posted to a Base establishment, or (c) transferred to X (i) list at the Base. Personnel of HQs, or extra-regimental units, may as a matter of convenience be posted direct from NZ Reception Depot and need not be marched through their appropriate training depot. Any extra-duty pay will cease 7 days after transfer to X (ii) list, subject to the proviso that if prior replacement is made ED pay will cease from such prior date.
    16. THE X (iii) LIST comprises
    (a) Confirmed prisoners of war,
    (b) Personnel officially declared missing,
    (c) OR under un-suspended sentence of detention or imprisonment (personnel undergoing field punishment remain on unit strength),
    (d) Deserters
    Missing personnel will NOT be transferred to X (iii) list until the official notification is received from 2 Ech. Deserters are NOT struck off unit strength until [notification] is received by 2 Ech and personnel are declared deserters by 2 Ech through Part II Orders. Temporary or acting rank will be retained by, and extra-duty pay will continue to be payable to, personnel posted missing or PW [Prisoner of War].
    17. THE X (iv) LIST comprises all unposted reinforcements and incoming reinforcement drafts. Personnel discharged from NZ Reception Depot (x(ii)) to Training Depots, fit for duty, are transferred to the X (iv) list of their corps, until posted to a unit, when they are struck off X (iv) and taken on unit strength. Reinforcements in transit between the Base and a unit remain on X (iv) (and the Base Depot strength) until they actually reach and are taken on the strength by the unit to which they are proceeding. Escaped PsW [Prisoners of War] who until such escape have been on the X (iii) list are transferred to X (iv) list on reaching their respective training depots.
    18. THE X (v) LIST
    (a) When officer personnel attend as students at courses of instructions or schools, for more than twenty-eight days, they will, ONLY at the discretion of MS, 2 NZEF, be transferred to X (v) list.
    (b) When other rank personnel attend as students at courses of instruction for more then twenty-eight days, they will be transferred to X (v) list (and thus struck off the strength of their unit) unless the unit expressly states that they should remain detached.
    (c) All candidates for OCTU [Officer Cadet Training Unit] will immediately transferred to X (v) list; on commissioning they will be transferred to X (iv) list of their corps and subsequently posted to a unit.
    (d) All personnel acting as instructors at courses or schools outside the 2 NZEF, or struck off unit strength for duty with a unit outside the 2 NZEF, will be transferred to X (v) list. Although officers might in such circumstances be seconded, they will be placed on X (v) list.
    19. Immediately an officer or other rank is transferred to the “x” list, he is “lost” to his unit, and is immediately replaceable by a reinforcement. Subject to ….2 NZEF Regulations, a vacancy for promotion is immediately created. It is in the interest of the unit to make immediate promotion or replacement as there is no guarantee that the individual will ever return to his unit. Return of specialist may, however, be requested …..Once personnel are transferred to X (iv) list from any other section of the “X” list, they are liable to be used as reinforcements for any unit within their own corps. Subject to certain conditions and exceptions as laid down in 2 NZEF Regulations, acting or temporary rank will be relinquished on transfer to the “X” list.
    Personnel temporarily detached from their units and not actually posted or transferred to other units or corps will NOT be transferred to the “X” list, neither will they be replaceable by reinforcements.

    Make of it what you will


    Note to self - you have just copied and pasted post no 1 of this thread
  9. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

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  10. Rothy

    Rothy Well-Known Member

    Apologies if I have missed this, however does anyone have details for the 'Z' List please?

    I have a service record where the soldier in India was posted to 'Z(i)' on 15th December 1944. He remained in India, most likely with the Army Signals School at Poona, until 4th February 1946 when he was released to Class 'Z'(T) Reserve. He then left India in March to return to the U.K.

    I understand what 'Z' Reserve is - but what is the 'Z' List and its sub-sections?

  11. CAMRyan

    CAMRyan Member

    Hello, I'm trying to decipher the WW2 Service Record of a friend's grandfather and I'm struggling to understand some of the abbreviations and acronyms.

    On the 18th September 1942 his record states that he was with No. 2 Infantry Depot (not his unit, which is 1st Sherwood Foresters) and that he had been relegated to CLASS W, ROYAL ARMY RESERVE on compassionate grounds for 3 months. There is no indication what his wounds might be - mental or physical - or any notes indicating that he had been in combat (Sherwood Foresters were at Tobruk - and his battalion captured - which would explain his injuries, but nothing is written in his record to say he was there). I'm hoping some explanation might lie in the letter of authority, it reads, as follows:-

    Authority: WO Letter No.BM 04134 (AGID) dated 15.9.42

    I'd be very grateful for any help decoding this letter, many thanks.
  12. Rothy

    Rothy Well-Known Member

    Hi CAMRyan,

    I'm not completely sure however I have always understood the "Authority" to be the administrative governance relating to a posting or promotion or other event. It seems to me that these "authorities" refer to orders or instructions which have instigated and/or approved of the action - as in providing "the written authority for....".

    What might be more enlightening is if there are any references to being posted to the 'X' List. Clues might come from knowing which sub-section of the 'X' List he may have been posted to. X(ii), X(iv) for instance.

  13. CAMRyan

    CAMRyan Member

    Thank you for this, Steve, it's much appreciated. I'll scan the text again - appalling writing, it's very hard to read, which doesn't help.
  14. worsil

    worsil New Member

    Regarding 2 AADR - my grandfather was also posted to 2 AADR and it's the only posting abbreviation in his record that we have been unable to identify. In my grandfather's case, he was a Gunner, wounded in action, and was then at a convalescent depot in Algiers from Oct-Dec 1943. Then when he was posted x(iv) (fit to return to his unit) he was also posted 2 AADR at the same time. I have concluded that this must have been a reinforcements depot of some description, but I would love to be able to actually identify it!
  15. Rothy

    Rothy Well-Known Member

    2 AADR appears to have been 2 (or 2nd) Anti-Aircraft Depot and Training Regiment. It was in Italy in 1944.There is a war diary at TNA for 1944 WO 170/1126.

    worsil and Tricky Dicky like this.
  16. worsil

    worsil New Member

    Thanks Rothy! What a shame the war diary is only for 1944 - I shall make a note of the reference and hopefully someday will be able to get to Kew and look at it.
  17. Archaepon

    Archaepon Member

    Kieron I know this was posted ages ago! Many thanks all those X(ii) and other X symbols on my Dad's war record now make sense! He seems to have been wounded twice, once in Africa and once in Italy. Many thanks!
    4jonboy and Owen like this.

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