Hi all, I just came to my attention that 7th NZ Anti-Tank Regiment used the M10 in Italy. I have bookmarked the online history of 2nd New Zealand Divisional Artillery, but does anyone know if a regimental history of this unit exists? What's the state of accessibility for New Zealand regimental war diaries? edit: I note there is also a study of a troop of the regiment, Guns Against Tanks, but that's from the fighting in Libya rather than Italy.
Chris: I have a copy of the following: Henderson, Alan; Green, David; and Cooke, Peter. The Gunners: A History of New Zealand Artillery. Rosedale, North Shore, New Zealand: Penquin Group, 2008. There are ten pages that detail the organization and use of the M-10s in the 2nd New Zealand Division in Italy. Also included is a picture of a New Zealand M-10. I will make a copy of the pages and send you a link in a conversation,
In the bibliography of the Henderson book mentioned above, there was an entry for the following: Munro, R.D. 7th NZ Anti-Tank Regiment - 2NZEF 1939-46,author, Upper Hurst, 1992.
Fantastic, thank you very much! I expect that will be a hard book to track down... or more like impossible. I can't even find a mention of it online. I did however find what appears to be a photograph of the author from 1991. The title seems to actually start with "7th NZ Anti-Tank regiment 2 NZEF 1939 - 45". And as suggested by the bibliographical entry, privately printed.
Hi From my fathers story I have; "The Embarkation Roll also shows him as being in the 34th Anti-tank, which was “Special Unit” raised in London from New Zealanders in the United Kingdom. This unit was known as 34 Battery, 7th Anti-Tank Regiment, 2nd New Zealand Divisional Artillery. It consisted of four Troops, N, O, P (2 pounders) and Q (18 pounders). From- 2nd New Zealand Divisional Artillery Author: Murphy, W. E. Publication details: Historical Publications Branch, 1966, Wellington, Section -The First Echelon, page 8. The first instalment of the 7th Anti-Tank enlisted in England. As in the First World War, New Zealanders there were allowed, if they wished, to join the NZEF. Since no anti-tank guns had reached New Zealand and no anti-tank gunners could be properly trained there, it proved convenient to accept the volunteers in England for training as such. They were therefore formed into the New Zealand Anti-Tank Battery, later numbered the 34th, under Major C. S. J. Duff. After a very thorough training at Aldershot, this battery of individualists with remarkably varied backgrounds and experiences, attracting much attention and gaining much publicity for New Zealand, sent an advanced party to Egypt early in April and arrived there itself on Anzac Day. The journey across the English Channel to Cherbourg, then across France by train (three weeks before the Wehrmacht struck), then from Marseilles through the Mediterranean in HMT Devonshire, calling at Malta, was brief but interesting and might have been much more so had it been delayed a few weeks. Joining the 4th Field at Maadi Camp, the newcomers attracted interest because of their low army numbers: the 146 other ranks were numbered from 501 upwards and the handful of officers from 999 downwards. Unusual talents or interests soon took many members of this battery to other units or services. Four of them became foundation members of the Kiwi Entertainment Unit (the Kiwi Concert Party), which survived the war unofficially by many years. Four more joined the first Long Range Patrol, which blossomed into the Long Range Desert Group. One became Freyberg's draughtsman; another became his cook. One, Peter McIntyre, became the official New Zealand war artist. One was soon supervising a large engineering project in the Sudan, and so on; but an earnest core of anti-tankers remained. Theirs were not the only three-figure numbers in the 2 NZEF. A few more New Zealanders enlisted later in England and most of them joined the Second Echelon. Their army numbers were in the 900s and 800s" My Dad was transferred to 24 Battalion on arrival in the Middle East. Hope this helps
Incidentally, if anyone from NZ is ever looking for that anti-tank book and happens to read this thread (ok, remote, I know) I did find that the library in Christchurch seems to have a copy. 7th N.Z. Anti-Tank Regiment, 2 NZEF, 1939-45 — Christchurch City Libraries Ngā Kete Wānanga o Ōtautahi And the author seems to have left some manuscripts with the Auckland Museum. Raymond Donald Munro - World War II Narratives And of more general interest, the 2 NZ Divisional Artillery History is here: 2nd New Zealand Divisional Artillery | NZETC
Hi Chris I knew about the Auckland copy but didn’t know about the Christchurch One, Raymond did quite a few self-Published books, I got The 28th Maori Battalion, and his 2 Trail of the Black Diamond ones (NZ Division) he passed away be four I could get down to wellington to see him and get the rest of his books. Jeffrey Plowmans Rampant Dragons: New Zealanders in Armour in World War II Chapter 7 or 8 covers the M10s in the 7th NZ AT Regiment I wrote these notes 20 odd years ago about troop letters 7TH NZ ANTI-TANK REGIMENT 1939-41 REGIMENTAL HQ= 31ST BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, A, B, C TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 TOWED 2PDR 32ND BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, E, F, G TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 TOWED 2PDR 33RD BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, J, K, L TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 TOWED 2PDR 34TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, N, O, P TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 2PDR ATTACHED H SIGNALS SECTION 1 officer, 34 OR 5mb, 6 8cwt ffw, 1 30cwt ATTACHED 15TH LAD 1 officer, 15 OR 1 Mb, 1car, 2 3ton trucks, 1 3ton breakdown TOTAL 39 MOTORBIKES, 122 TRUCKS AND CARS In Egypt 34th battery from UK had 9 Mk.IX 2pdrs from UK... on Ford & Chevrolet CMP 3tons (34th battery was Formed at Aldershot in October 1939, to France then got to Egypt on the 25th April The journey across the English Channel to Cherbourg (Embarked at Southampton on 17th April 1940), then across France by train (three weeks before the Wehrmacht struck), then from Marseilles through the Mediterranean in HMT Devonshire, calling at Malta, was brief but interesting and might have been much more so had it been delayed a few weeks. Advanced party from UK 4 officers and 9 OR the 34th had 2 nick names the Hollywood or Pommie battery) 1941 got Dodge D8A 8cwt PU MAY 1941-JUNE 1942 REGIMENTAL HQ= 31ST BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, A, B, C TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 2PDR, D TROOP 4 TOWED 18PDR 32ND BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, E, F, G TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 2PDR, H TROOP 4 TOWED 18PDR 33RD BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, J, K, L TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 2PDR, M TROOP 4 TOWED 18PDR 34TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, N, O, P TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 2PDR, Q TROOP 4 TOWED 18PDR ATTACHED H SIGNALS SECTION ATTACHED 15TH LAD The 4 troops of 18pdr put 152 more men in to regiment (38 per troop) JUNE-JULY 1942 REGIMENTAL HQ= 31ST BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, A, B, C, D TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES/TOWED 6PDR, 32ND BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, E, F, G, H TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES/TOWED 6PDR, 33RD BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, J, K, L, M TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES /TOWED 6PDR, 34TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, N, O, P, Q TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES /TOWED 6PDR, ATTACHED H SIGNALS SECTION 26th June disbanded ATTACHED 15TH LAD At start of Miaqar Qaim battle only E troop had 6pdrs,B troop had 1 6pdr and 4 2pdr portees A,C,D,F,G,H,J,K,L,M troops each 4 2pdr portees 34th Battery(N,O,P,Q troops) was at Amiria rearming with 6pdrs.On 27th of June 1942 31st, 32nd,33rd batteries got 12 6pdr each,(some 2 pdrs given to infantry battalions but 33rd battery had 16 2pdr,12 6pdr),On 30th June got 22 more 6pdrs,by 1-3rd July 1942 all batteries had 16 6pdrs,2pdr given to infantry battalions 8 each, October 1942 man shortage so F,N troops disbanded ,reformed November-December 1942,Regiment 49 Officers,699 OR? Posted 31 off/461 OR attached 4 off/15 OR , 6pdrs All are Mk.II FEBRUARY 1943 REGIMENTAL HQ= 31ST BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, A, B, C TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, D TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 32ND BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, E, F, G TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, H TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 33RD BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, J, K, L TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, M TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 34TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, N, O, P TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, Q TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR ATTACHED 15TH LAD 6 pdrs portees are Austen K5s By end of February had 48 6pdr Mk.II, 16 17pdr Mk.I APRIL 1944 REGIMENTAL HQ= 31ST BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, A, B, TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, D TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 32ND BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, E, F, TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, H TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 33RD BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, J, K, TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, M TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 34TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, N, O, TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, Q TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 35TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, C, G, L, P TROOPS EACH 4 4.2-INCH MORTARS ATTACHED 15TH LAD 35th battery was later renamed 39th battery Some troops used as Infantillery 17pdr Mk I (H Troop Mk.II), 6 pdrs Mk II or Mk IV?? JUNE 1944 (WE 49 officers / 699 OR) REGIMENTAL HQ= 31ST BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, A, B, TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 M10 TANK DESTROYERS, D TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 32ND BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, E, F, TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, H TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 33RD BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, J, K, TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, M TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 34TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, N, O, TROOPS. EACH TROOP 4 PORTEES 6PDR, Q TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 39TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, C, G, L, P TROOPS EACH 4 4.2-INCH MORTARS ATTACHED 15TH LAD On 26th June 1944 got 9 M10 tank destroyers 17pdr Mk II? OCTOBER-NOVEMBER 1944 REGIMENTAL HQ= 31ST BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, A, TROOP 4 M10 TANK DESTROYERS B TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 32ND BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, C TROOP 4 M10 TANK DESTROYERS D TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 33RD BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, E, TROOP 4 M10 TANK DESTROYERS F TROOP 4 TOWED 17PDR 39TH BATTERY=BATTERY HQ, G, H, J, K TROOPS EACH 4 4.2-INCH MORTARS 5TH SURVEY TROOP ATTACHED 15TH LAD 5th survey troop 2 off/23 Or, Regiment of 589 men and 255 vehicles C troop got 1 M10C (17pdr) in Jan 1945 39th battery renamed 34th battery Mortar troop 1 dingo s/car, 4 jeeps towed mortars 17pdr towed by M14 H/T??? (I have seen No Evidence of this). (Some towed by trucks 3ton?) M10 troop, 1 jeep, 1 Recc M3, 4 M10 RHQ had 1 Otter A/C (each Battery Also?) Hildaren
Thanks Hildaren. It is very interesting to see that they used 6 pounder portees in Italy. A bit of a segue, but is Rampant Dragons worth getting or if I want a book on NZ armour is there something newer I should buy instead?
Hi Chris All Jeffrey Plowmans books are good (I have about 8) , Rampant Dragons is more about NZ 4th armored Brigade I attached the 1st 4 pages of chapter 8 for you to have a look at. I think the PORTEES is a mistake by me at the end of 1943 7th was using 3 ton GS in the War Establishment tables so properly towed the 6pdrs, Hildaren
Thank you very much, Hildaren. I can see how those pages include quotes from veterans. I am generally interested in armour, but was planning to write about British and Canadian M10 use. As soon as I learned that the New Zealand division used some, I instantly felt that they need to be included in any such book as well. It seems a terrible shame that there was insufficient training given to the regiment when they received their M10s. I feel that shows a failure on the part of 8th Army. PS I do still want to buy the book, as I am sure I will find the whole thing very interesting! Even though it will cost a pretty penny to ship from NZ to Canada.
Matthew Wright “Those Who have the Courage,” the History of the RNZAC and Predecessor Forces Published by Oratia Media Limited, has just been released in NZ. A large and comprehensive history. It is available online from Whitcoulls, or directly from Oratia Media Limited.
