Advice on 25 pounder and Quad kit please

Discussion in 'Modelling' started by Wobbler, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    Would some kind soul be able to advise as to the best kit for the 25 Pounder and Quad Tractor? Now, I’ve seen the Tamiya 1:35, which I like very much, and I think it’s the right scale for what I want, but I am not sure whether this would be entirely accurate in terms of what my grandad would have actually driven, given the box says it’s a “Canadian Ford”.

    4B46E089-5A59-408E-A901-9CBB95A791CA.jpeg

    Grandad drove a Quad with the BEF in 1940 and later in Sicily/Italy. He was with 92 Field Regiment, which formed part of 15 Infantry Brigade, 5th Infantry Division. Would he, therefore, have even driven a Canadian Quad?

    I want to try and represent as accurately as is possible what he would have driven and I am leaning more towards the Sicily/Italy version, mainly because his Regiment really belonged to the Globetrotters and so those are the Divisional markings I would like to apply to the model. I say that only because in the battle of 1940 the Regiment was “loaned” to 50th Division and temporarily changed its vehicles’ formation sign to that of the 50th (I know they did this as it is mentioned in Ralph Wild’s Dunkirk: A Personal Memoir)

    That will be the next problem, of course, knowing which Regimental/Divisional signs the 92nd would have had on its vehicles in Italy. The “Y”, of course, but which number? In France I’m pretty sure it was “5”, but I don’t know if this would have been the same in Italy.

    Interestingly, I did find this old Italy campaign version on Flying Mule, but I was immediately curious as to why the “Y” would have been on a blue background? Would it not have been brown and also square? (perhaps I am erroneously influenced in that thinking by the uniform formation patch) I also don’t know what the yellow circle on the right hand wheel arch is, or how accurate?

    Hobby Master HG4003 - C8 Quad Artillery Tractor Diecast Model, British Army 5th Infantry Div, Italy, 1943

    I note too that this model bears the number “43” but I don’t know if this would been for the 92nd. Would you know the exact markings a Quad for 92nd Field Regiment in Italy would have carried?

    Sorry, lots of questions and please forgive my ignorance on any of the above.

    Thanks very much.

    Martin
     
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  2. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    If I was betting I would say a Morris with the BEF and a CMP in Sicily. The CMPs were just coming online in 1940 and greatly outnumbered the Morris once they got going. Ford and Chevy versions were just about identical except for Ford V8 and Chevy inline 6 of equal performance. Many Morrises lost at Dunkirk too
     
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  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The early Canuck Chevy/Ford Quads are externally almost identical to the Morris in early iterations, with divergence only really kicking in around '43.
    One factor that might queer that is if he crewed a Guy Quad-Ant, as they would look different to the Tamiya. Not sure how you'd confirm that without pictures or docs showing what he used.

    Was always a nice kit, if pretty old. Think Dragon do a 25pdr, and their artillery kits are excellent.
     
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  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    5th Division vehicle sign was a Y on a circle which I assumed was black not blue.
    I've posted photos of it before from the Divisional history & photos of 2 Wilts vehicles.
    The khaki patch with white Y was for uniforms only.
     
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  5. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    Many thanks all for your help here lads. I’ve been having a look online at some of the models out there, eyes spinning a bit now.

    What you say about the sheer numbers of CMPs, Dave, makes a whole lot of sense to me and it is steering me more towards the Tamiya kit.

    Mind you, I found that Mirror Models have a very tidy Quad kit, albeit no gun and limber:

    19C3CBC7-83CC-4949-8D22-339FB175EF3C.jpeg

    Of course, I could get the gun/limber set separately and that Dragon 25-pounder does look a beauty, yes Adam. Whilst they both don’t appear to be as plentiful in the UK as the Tamiya, you can definitely get them, no problem.

    Re the Guy Quad-Ant, yep, difficult to know whether he drove one or not without evidence, which I don’t expect to be forthcoming any time soon. Sadly, I just don’t know so I’m going to have to go with the Morris or CMP (sorry if I get it wrong, Gramps).

    Owen, I had a look too at the photos you posted and Neil’s Dodge WK60 Gantry thread, cheers (great models he puts together). The daft thing about the vehicle sign was that I’ve got the Division history myself upstairs. I even went to it yesterday to check another piece of information and didn’t even think to look at the bloody photos! The confusion about it being blue came purely from the photos of the model in that Flying Mule link, but I reckon you’re dead right about it being a black circle.

    Even in a black and white photo it just doesn’t look blue (does that even make sense lol?). What clinches it for me as well is that the Division’s badge changed to exactly that in 1946, didn’t it.
     
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  6. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hi Martin,

    There are a number of options for Quads - Mirror Models have 2 or 3 Morris options, Tamiya have the Ford Quad and IBG and Italeri have the Chevrolet Quad all of these in 1/35th scale. But as to 25 pdr and Limber I would go for the Bronco version. The limber comes with a full set of ammunition in removable trays with several spare rounds.

    This is the IBG Chevrolet with the old Tamiya 25 pdr and Limber.

    Cheers

    Kevin
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I'm fairly certain this is a Morris C8 but I'll leave it to the experts to decide which body it is...

    92 Fd Regt RA C8 FAT ex-PAIFORCE Feb 1943.jpg

    From The Ninety-Second by Aris, on thier way from PAIFORCE to Kabrit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
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  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

    And best to avoid the BEF as they had 18/25-prs then.
     
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  9. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    Thanks Kevin, I’ve now seen and like very much the Mirror Models Quad kits, but I confess I didn’t know about the Bronco 25 pdr. I must give that a look.
     
  10. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    This is great, thank you and do my eyes deceive me, or is that a “44” I see there? I wonder if that is the number they would have carried into Italy or if it would have changed...

    Mirror Models have two great looking kits, the Mk II and a later body Mk III and from the photo I’m veering more towards the MK III which means, with my inexpert eye, it will turn out to be the Mk II. I understand the Mk III had windows in the doors, which I can’t see in the photo but that area is quite dark so they could be there.

    282469C9-91E4-45EC-8538-ECD34E26AC8B.jpeg 97BA1503-1F51-44AC-BD54-3AB9BADBD81D.jpeg
     
  11. idler

    idler GeneralList

    According to Wiki, the bodies overlapped the marks. Added to the question mark over the door windows, I thought I'd better not offer an opinion....
     
  12. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hi Martin,

    Please see attached. Bronco actually make a separate Limber kit without the 25 pdr. This also has 2 full sets of removable ammunition. Also is the 25 pdr and Limber kit, this is a really nice kit I have built 2 already and prefer it over the Dragon issue.. Bronco were going to release a full set Morris Mk II ( or III ) with Limber and 25 pdr but with the Mirror Model releases this is still yet to see the light of day ( if ever!! ).

    If you can find it anywhere Dragon did a desert version with limber and crew but I have not seen it around for a few years.

    Cheers

    Kevin
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    Thanks again Kevin.

    From the few photos in the Fifth Division book of the 25 pdrs in action in Italy, I notice that none seem to show the weapon with muzzle-brake and so I’m thinking this should therefore be the same for my attempt.

    I can see that Dragon do versions of the 25 pdr both with and without the muzzle-brake - can the Bronco kit be put together without adding the muzzle-brake, or does the barrel come with it already moulded on? I confess I do like the Bronco.
     
  14. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    Yes, not an easy call. This photo from Aris’s Fifth British Division is of a 9th Field Regiment Quad in 1942 and the door windows are clearly there. Whilst it’s not the 92nd, it at least shows that by late 1942 5th Division had Mk II/Mk III Quads and so, combined with the photo you provided (that extra window on the left), the late body Mk III version Mirror kit seems to be the one closest to what I want. Thanks again for your help.

    D36EB453-61CC-4A09-BA72-4BCAE0FE7B77.jpeg
     
  15. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Hi Martin,

    I wasn't sure so I have just checked the Bronco instructions and yes it does give you the option of making the gun with or without the muzzle brake. There is a choice, the final sections of the barrel come with or without.

    Cheers

    Kevin
     
  16. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Fiddling about with the levels, there's something there:

    92 Fd Regt RA C8 FAT ex-PAIFORCE Feb 1943 door.jpg

    Sorry if I'm making the wobbling worse...
     
  17. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    Great stuff, cheers Kevin, you’ve been a great help to me. A Bronco/Mirror Models combo I reckon.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  18. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

    Lol, that has just made it very much better - I reckon that’s a window and right where it should be.

    Thanks again for your much appreciated endeavours.
     

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