Can anyone help me understand how soldiers leave was organised in Italy in 44 -45? My father was in the RASC supplying RA AA regiments working up the Adriatic side of Italy. I have a photo marked Bari, and dated April 44 showing my father and 3 coleagues in what is clearly a 'studio' setting. The unit diary records on the 13th April that 12 OR went on leave to 8th Army Leave Camp at Bari so I am assuming my father was in this group. The diary records that they were at that time at Fossacesia which is (according to Google), some 268km away further north. My question is , what was the nature of a 'rest camp' and how would 12 men travel that sort of distance or would they be loaned one of their own lorries (would a 3 tonner take 12 men?) and with suitable passes be expected to make their way there and back? I am also interested to find out if this particular camp was near the harbour as this is only 4 months after the infamous John Harvey incident when Mustard Gas was released during a German raid. I also have a pass for further a further leave in March 45. This gives specific times and dates and says X Has permission to be absent from his quarters / duty, from A/D 4 Mar 45 to 2359 - 11 Mar 45. for the purpose of proceeding to Florence (Station) X? the Field. What is A/D, after dark perhaps? What does (station) mean as its part of the preprinted form so seems strange to be refering to a railway station. My fathers unit diary states they were at this time at Ravenna and this journey would have involved crossing over the Appenines, so again, not what you would have thought would be a straightforward trip for 7 days leave. There is also a very feint 'stamp' on the pass that appears to say Rest Camp. Would a similar rest camp have operated in the vicinity of Florence. Now in this case the unit diary records on the 12th March that 'one OR returns to duty from L.I.A.P.' Could that be my father or did LIAP always involve returning to the UK?
Hutt It all depended on the unit to figure out leave arrangements - for example- we wre in Italy for nearly a year but only had two days leave - in the middle of the Gothic Line Batlles so he ws lucky - most rest camps were near a beach - not n Cities with thee exception of Naples - ROME - Florence etc with benches 30 men to one three tonner ... A/D anno domino 4th March '45 ... From Ravenna - across the plain to Bologna - through the passes to Florence LIAP was 28 days leave to the UK Cheers
Hutt Apart from day leaves in Algiers, Bari, Rome, & Florence the only 7 day leaves I had were in Cairo & Velden (Austria) My 28 day leaves in the UK were to do with LIAP. As others have pointed out, local leaves were always arranged at Regimental level. Ron
I remember 55 rest camp was in CORTINA in 1945....Hotel excellsior Venice Lido and in rome i think it was connected with MALCOLM CLUB in 1946...all were 14 day stays
Hi. Thanks for all the pointers. Knowing that they were officially called Rest Camps has enabled me to do a search at Kew and there are about 20+ results in the WO170 (Italy) series including Camp 55 but they dont give locations. I now have another reason to visit Kew. However, does anyone have any info as to what camp was where or I guess I'll just have to trawl through each file? Camp Numbers seem to be, 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 C, G & Z?
Hutt There were also convalescence camps dotted here and there for returning patients prior to taking up regimental duties once more - I was discharged from #33 Gen Hospital in Catania - Sicily and made my way to Torre Annunziatta on the Amalfi coast for a whole week of luxury with good food - little discipline -treated like a human being -and lots of swimming... Cheers
A/D with respect to leave passes always meant 'after duties' on the day in question during my time; i.e.whenever the boss said you could go! Chris
Thanks for all the replies with useful background information. A/D as after duties seems most plausible. If I can get to see the files for these rest camps and get a location for the camp numbers above, I'll do an update.
...If I can get to see the files for these rest camps and get a location for the camp numbers above, I'll do an update. Yes please. It will be interesting to see what information is in the file Jules.
In the war diaries I have it mentions sending Officers on "Exercise Razor Blade", anyone else seen/been on this exercise. When I get to the big computer I'll upload a picture.
Alanst500 The timing of that entry for the Lothians suggests to me that at that time - they had left 6th AD in Austria - and were swanning about with VIP's around the Milan area- escorting them to the trains for the UK - so it might have been refresher courses on how to behave with their "betters " such as the Supreme Commander F.M Alexander - and civilian equals etc Cheers
Alanst500 thought it might along those lines as we were a scruffy lot in 26th AB as we seemed to be in action a lot and thus razor blades were far from our minds as when I landed up in hospital at Ancona - it took the barber three days to shave me - mind you I was lying on my stomach at the time which made his job more difficult Cheers
A quick update to my post #5 I was able to make a brief visit to Kew over Easter. I took a punt on one of the files that come up in a search for ‘rest camp’ in the WO170 series and seem to have immediately found the file for the camp at Bari during the period of April 44 which would cover the period during which my father would have visited. WO170/3722. 01 March 44 to 31 December 44. War Office: Central Mediterranean Forces, (British Element): War Diaries, Second World War. ITALY. CAMPS. 54 Rest Camp. I did not have time to look in detail and photographed only a few pages but it appears to have been originally numbered as Rest Camp 50 and ‘redesignated’ as 54 at some point during the year as the blue monthly cover sheet has been annotated to say ‘now 54’. It does not appear to contain much of significance (did not expect it to) but people may be interested in some idea of the scale of the operation. There are monthly Returns including one for April 44 which gives some indication of numbers. Average (from a quick excel calc) arriving and departing daily was, Officers, about 12 and ORs, about 580. Total in camp as recorded daily was about 70+ officers and 3200-3800 ORs. Much bigger than I would have thought but what do I know! If I get the time in future, I’ll see if I can find the Camp for Florence (my father went there in March 45) and perhaps see if at any point the diaries gives a more precise location for the camps.
I don't know if this helps but I have a good picture of my Father exiting 55 rest camp. It was a very impressive building with columns covered with vines. I will share if it helps you.
My grandfather was in the RNVR and was in Cortina and Venice on leave during the middle of the war. Not certain of the dates. He stayed in a villa owned by a Contessa (will have to check the names etc), and they kept in touch for some time after the war, as my grandparents emigrated to Australia. I have some photos of the villa in Cortina and of their jeep, which was name the Thermos Flask. There is a family story regarding the training about how to behave around your "betters". My grandfather's response was "I have no betters." This was not well received as one could imagine. Happy to post some pictures if anyone is interested. And another snippet - there was a roasted pig's head which belonged to my grandpa - a few images of this too.
May be its just me and I am sure there were more important things to record but I cannot believe there was not a list of all camps and their locations\size available (and even a map), other wise how did anyone know where they were, capacity for postings etc? Brian
Brian Problem was that we were fighting a war and probably the only people who knew where the rest camps were - was the RASC who had to supply them with food etc as you will note that the first posting was with the 12 RASC men finding the rest camp near Bari fro 264 kms away… Cheers
