Artillery

Discussion in 'Trux Discussion Area' started by mario, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. mario

    mario Junior Member

    Anyone can tell me where to find Field, Medium and Heavy Artillery units? They are not listed under Arms-Artillery. Also under Artillery there is a section about Engineers. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    All should be restored to normal soon. I have no technical skills so cannot say when or how. In the meantime if you desperately need the artillery pages I can send them by e mail attachment.

    Mike
     
  3. mario

    mario Junior Member

    No worries Trux. Pls no hurry. Thanks for your time for putting all these together. I have a question. I ll put it although I am not sure whether this is the right place to do so. I read elsewhere about the existence of a "Counter Battery (or Bombardement) Officer's Staff" at Corps level. I can not find this unit listed under "Royal Artillery - introduction". Instead I see the "Counter Mortar Officer's Staff" at divisional level as well as the "Divisional Counter Mortar Battery". I am a bit confused as for the roles and relations between these three units. Any help from anyone would be very welcome. Thanks again.
     
  4. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Mario,

    Royal Artillery organisation was often complicated, and it changed over time. There are indeed three different types of organisation for Counter Battery/ Counter Mortar work.

    Each Corps had a Counter Battery Officer and staff. These originated from WWI but by 1944 it operated as an intelligence gathering unit and a link between Survey Battery and AGRA. The 1944 Counter Battery Officers staff consisted of a small headquarters, three sections plus a small photo interpretation section. Two sections were usually deployed with forward divisions. They collected information on enemy artillery from the survey battery attached to the division, and if possible from forward observers of artillery regiments. The headquarters section gathered information also from AOP squadrons and tactical reconnaissance aircraft. Information was used to maintain an accurate picture of enemy artillery on the Corps front, provide intelligence to higher formations and control the activity of such counter battery artillery as might be assigned by an AGRA.

    Counter Mortar work was different in that it needed to be quick. Enemy mortars could set up, fire several rounds and then move to another location. Counter Mortar Officers and staff had to obtain information quickly from sound location, observers and radar and call on fire from a field battery immediately. The difference between a Counter Mortar Officers Staff and Divisional Counter Mortar Battery is simply that the first is the organisation set up in theatre to deal with mortars while the second was an official establishment introduced in late 1944. The functions were the same.

    I hope I have not made it even more confusing.

    Mike
     
  5. mario

    mario Junior Member

    Not at all. It is all much clearer now. At least regarding the distinction between the Counter Battery Officer and Staff at Corps level and the Counter Mortar operations at divisional level. Thank you so much for your time Mike.

    But I am still puzzled by the fact that there was an official WE for Counter Mortar Officer's Staff for an Infantry Division and one for an Armoured Division issued in September 1944. Then the Counter Mortar Battery appears in December 1944 (I guess for both types of division), and then again there is a new WE for the former two issued in February 1945. I tried to sort it out and I came up with three possible answers to this puzzle:

    1. Counter Mortar Officer's Staff for both infantry and armoured divisions were officially created 9/1944, then a new common unit the Counter Mortar Battery replaced both 12/1945 and then again reverted back to separate CM Officer's Staff for infantry and armoured divisions 2/1945.

    2. Some divisions in NWE had CM Officer's Staff Units and some CMBs.

    3. CMO's Staff evolved into CM Batteries in NWE while in elsewhere the CM Officer's Staff remained as the official unit for counter mortar operations at divisional level. These had a new WE in 2/1945.

    What do you think.

    Thanks again for your time.
     
  6. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Mario,

    Still thinking. However the Counter Mortar Battery was the official WD establishment and I have a note that 17 such units were formed or planned. There is some doubt as to whether they were actually used in 21 Army Group, which often went its own way.

    Most likely the Counter Mortar Battery is a red herring and not relevant in 21 Army Group. Therefore the 1945 establishment is a direct development of the September 1944 establishment. See if Nigel Evans site 'British Artillery in WWII' has anything to say.

    Finally this thread does not attract much attention. Try posting on the main site under Royal Artillery. There are several RA experts who may respond.

    Mike
     
    Aixman likes this.
  7. mario

    mario Junior Member

    Thanks again for your time Mike. I ll do that.
     
  8. Son-of-Thor

    Son-of-Thor Junior Member

    All should be restored to normal soon. I have no technical skills so cannot say when or how. In the meantime if you desperately need the artillery pages I can send them by e mail attachment.

    Mike
    Mike

    I know data recover can take some time, but 5 months ??? It's almost like dealing with Monty on something he dosn't want to do. ;)

    By the way I do love this section and the whole forum is great. Keep it up everyone.
     
  9. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Starting off with the right foot, eh? ;)
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Starting off with the right foot, eh? ;)

    He started back in May ;)
     
  11. Son-of-Thor

    Son-of-Thor Junior Member

    No No You %$#^&$. Left then Right! Left foot first!
     
  12. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Damn! Tripped over me laces again! :D
     
  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Mike,
    Missed this.
    SoT has nudged me, and I can only apologise if these artillery sections are missing - all transcription to the forum was done by myself, and while I thought I'd done it all it seems I may have missed some.
    I've searched for the cached version of the site I had and it doesn't appear to be on this computer (I may have saved it elsewhere - will check tomorrow).
    If you have the info, and could email it to me, I can upload it here straight away.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Mike Kindly sent me the missing info.
    All added now.
    (It's under my username as I've turned the trux one over to Mike following the original transcription of the site, but all work is his own.)

    Cheers to SoT for the nudge.

    ~A
     

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