british 3rd iron infantry division.

does anyone know if the whole division landed on d-day,the 6th june 1944.yours,lee.

 

No Idea. But I'm sure sapper will be along soon enough to tell us.

 

Yes the whole division landed. But there were very many other units under command for the assault. All with specific tasks to accomplish.

My Company was an assault company that reverted back to its normal role of Field Company RE. a short while after the invasion. Of all the invasion beaches, it seems to me that Sword was the best organised.

Oddly enough, far and away, the most heavily defended of all the beaches. The enemy strong points were names after Motor cars of that time, The defences round Sword were in depth. Daimler Morris and Hillman for example. Hillman was 650 meters by 450 metres of untouched by shell mortar or shell. A position of enormouse strength. We took it!
See Lt Athur Heal C de G.
IT was expected that the Division would be wiped out, and plans had been made to take survivors back to England.

The D day beaches were Queen Red and Queen White. Three brigades 8th 185 and 9th. Eighth Brigade led in with the the East Yorks. South Lancs and the Suffolks.

The Eighth Brigade led the invasion, and habitually led off all assault's. The leading units first in were the RE assault companies to prepare the way for the leading infantry and armour.

Sword came under fire from all the defensive positions, plus the big guns at Le Havre.
Eighth Brigade also had the job of getting to Pegasus Bridge.

The Sappers arrived there just before the Commandos and much admired the sight of the piper. One Sapper Sgt leaning against the bridge smoking a cigarette, laconically watching the scene.
Other Third Div Sappers and infantry had pressed on inland to Hermanville.

For many years it was claimed that we had it easy on Sword Beach, not true, the following from one of the assault ships log, lays this misinformation to rest, what follows later, is Stan Hough’s record taken from the log of one of the ships that carried the Assault craft. Princess Astrid. Bless her! She hit a mine in the channel after the war and sunk!

The Princess lost 4 out of her 8 Assault landing craft.
Princess Charlotte lost 7 out of 8.
MV Victoria lost 5 out of 6.
Prince Henry lost 5 out of 8.
Finally Prince David lost all 8.
On reflection, the loss of 29 Assault craft out of a total of 38 with only 9 saved, hardly bears out the idea of an "Easy landing" But, such is the power of propaganda that these myths are assumed to be true and become fixed as part of the Legend of D Day.

What the British did have on D day, was a determination to succeed no matter then odds or whatever.

Everything went as it was supposed to go.The enemy was not allowed to dictate the terms, And many men gave their lives, knowing that their deeds would never be recognised.

Nowhere on the invasion coast, did the invaders have to face such a concentration of enemy power similar to Sword.
The Americans claimed we had it easy...Rubbish.... The British took the bull by the horns and beat the enemy out of sight. There was no waiting on the beaches, no hesitation. No hanging back! Great personal sacrifices, and many deeds of great courage.
That we never captured Caen on D day was always a forlorn hope. It was amazing just how successful they were
Sapper

 

17th Field Company RE (Not Squadron) one of the Third div engineers Sister Companies. (17. 246. and 253.) Oddly enough the information that these authors get. More often than not..... comes from us.

My late and dear friend, Richard Harris and myself have supplied a great deal of info to many authors. Not so much now, but in previous years we sent off much information.

What annoyed me, is that at no time did the authors send us a copy of the book they were writing. Tight fisted lot! The only remaining sapper from my Company is my old platoon officer. He has been asked by his son to write up what happened...A bit late? I copied lots of my diary and sent it off to him. Should be interesting?
Sapper

 

Brian - keep us posted on that book, as it sounds interesting.

To be fair to authors - and I speak from personal experience - they only get a small handful of free books to give out. They then have to buy copies from the publisher, which can be an expensive business if your royalties are not that brilliant, which is often the case with military history books. Personally I always give copies out to those who help me, but not every author is the same, however.

By the way, Patrick Delaforce, whom Owen mentioned, is a veteran like yourself. He served in the RHA with 11th (Armoured) Division. Having met him, he is a perfect gentleman.

 

now my grandad died 11 yrs ago now,but he landed in sword area.my brother told me he landed on d plus 6,but i remember being told by grandad that when he landed there were bloatd up dead german soldiers.who would be correct.yours,lee.

 

would those bodies be left for 6 days.yours,lee.

 

I am afraid that not many bodies did get buried, so your Granddad was right about that time... they would have become bloated in the Summer sun.

Up at the sharp end, I can vouch for the fact that the dead from both sides did not get buried.
The stench of death is the one overweening memory of the killing ground, North of Caen. But nature did not differentiate between Friend and foe.

First they became very bloated. huge... then they deflated... then they slowly but surely sank back into the ground. All that was left to signify that once there had been a human being there, would be a tin helmet, a bit of khaki cloth and the sad remnants of a fighting man on the ground along side a hedgerow.

Mother nature gently reclaimed her own, and they returned from whence they came.

The smell of death was overpowering. Both from Humans and from cattle and horses.

We only escaped that stench when we left to go across Normandy, to the Vire sector...Fresh air!

On top of Hillman, many Germans were buried, but the ground was so shallow that their boots stuck out. I came back late one night to Hillman sat down and went out like a light, on the ground surrounded by the toes of jackboots, never thought anything about it.

One memory that never goes away was the long hours at the sharp end, and the exhaustion so that it was possible to sleep standing up.
Sapper

 

lee .. i believe that my grandad too land d,day plus he was in the irish ulsters. i'd like to find out more about his events

 

If he was in the Royal Ulster Rifles? He was in a great mob.. courageous, The best.. I had lunch with the Colonel that commanded them on D day. Back on the 60th annivesary.
Sapper

 

i'll get his army number and i'll pm it to you sapps. maybe youll know some one. i recall he did his training in the english lake didtrict...hated it so much he never returned. he liked france though

 

i'll get his army number and i'll pm it to you sapps. maybe youll know some one. i recall he did his training in the english lake didtrict...hated it so much he never returned. he liked france though

raf, I think that his reaction to where he trained is perfectly normal.

My Dad has visited Holland and Germany happily since the war but if someone suggested a visit to Catterick in winter...

His memory of Normandy as I recall is that generally the farmers were more concerned about the damage to their orchards than they were pleased to be liberated.

 

my grandad did all his trainig at brough in yorkshire,near hull.he loved that area of england,he liked holland too.yours,lee.

 

are there any divisional assosiations for 2nd army formations.yours,lee.

 

Not that I am aware of Lee. Though to be honest they would not get many members today? The youngest of the Vets would be in their 83rd year, as I am.
The great majority of the Normandy Veterans Associations have closed, as have the Market Garden Vets. Many members died, and those that are left are old and infirm.

The thing that prevented the reunion of many units post war, was that their mobs had been disbanded, and did not exist any more. As was mine. They did have a small reunion, and I have a card signed by the few survivors at that reunion.

There was the other very good reason why the reunions never took place. Like my company, they died along the way from Sword to Bremen.

Many of the original members of the companies did not make it to the end, That is what happened to my mob. having found my platoon officer, he told me that very few were left to have a reunion with.....
Sapper

 

brian,was the british 3rd div ever attached to the canadian army at all.yours,lee.

 

Never Lee. They were adjacent to us, that was the Third Canadian division. We had two third Divs, one Canadian one British.
Those two covered the whole area North of Caen. We covered the whole area North with the Canadians to our right side as we faced South. the Eastern boundary was the Caen Canal with 6th Airborne over. I have the two battle maps for D day and D plus one upstairs somewhere. You mentioned the bodies..Some of them were not buried for weeks, some never. they just melted away. Stench was ghastly
The Third British Infantry. Monty's Ironsides. was his old Div. The last out of France at the time of Dunkirk providing the last ditch rearguard. So Monty made sure they were FIRST back.
Sapper

 

was the 3rd british div attached to the canadian army at all,during the whole nw europe campaign,was what i meant,sorry about the confusion brian,yours,lee.