Deir el Shein sources - July 1942

Lads, does anyone know if there is an specific account, no matter the length, of the last stand by the Essex once the Sikh troops managed to escape?

 

The only first-hand account is the 1944 report submitted by their C.O. Lt. Col. May, he supplied this after being able to escape from a POW camp (Italian-run). I shall have to check my research paper.

I have had access to the Essex regimental history (copied here) and the first-hand account by the 2/5th Methodist Chaplain (copied here).

I have yet to reach one library which has three oral history interviews by Other Ranks, though I fear the battle will not be the focus, rather their time as POWs.

Oddly, I have yet to find how many died, how many were taken POW. A handful are buried in an El Alamein cemetery. May refers to the majority were taken POW.

 

I would think so. Barr in Pendulum of War refers to the action as brief, and not as a last stand, but a time-buying rearguard.

 

Brief? No, 1130-730PM is not brief IMHO. Yes there were lulls, the 18th Indian Brigade started to run out of rifle ammunition, the field artillery (25-pounders) were reduced (yet to work out how many) and The Buffs anti-tank company lost 14 of 16 6-pounder guns, with 60% losses. I would agree it was not a "last stand" and continuing to fight would have been suicide. Yes, it did "buy time".

 

I was referring to the last engagement, when the survivors that could had already run the wire and were on their way back to 8th Army lines. A surrounded 1/4 Essex detachment covered them.

 

Ah, I will have a look, but other local matters interfere now.

 

An update to Post 119 (1/11/2023) and the puzzle:

Pre-Xmas reading a 2011 article 'Steel my soldiers' hearts': El Alamein Reappraised by Jonathan Fennell (Kings College & UK Staff College), from the Journal of Military and Strategic Studies Vol. 14, No. 1, I found this:

The two footnotes refer to a document in the South African Archives: Box 368 Court of Inquiry, Tobruk, Report of a Court of Inquiry. Assembled by Order of the C-in-C 8th July 1942.

I do find it odd that a TNA document is not cited.

 

This map appears in an Osprey book, as it covers twenty-seven days in July 1942 it is a little complicated.

 

Thanks to Andreas I have had the opportunity to read more of the official South African history (Tom provided several pgs earlier) and two other books with South African authors I knew a little about: Neil Orpen's 'War in the Desert' and a regimental history of The Royal Durban Light Infantry.

Attached are my notes, next is a double-check whether new information is there. Plus, the construction of a timeline for the actual battle. It is clear a good number of accounts repeat the standard history, a few others mention new information.

I have added two maps, one defies my IT skills so is vertical, not horizontal.

 

The one about the DLI sounds interesting, while all of Orpen's works about SA forces are nothing short of holy grails; elusive, expensive, and a must for war buffs

 

Has anyone here got 'The Battle for North Africa: El Alamein and the Turning Point for World War II' by Glyn Harper, from New Zealand? Published in the USA, in 2017. The book does not appear here.

He makes a few references to this battle and on pg. 42 refers to the 18th Indian Brigade having one thousand casualties and a footnote 22 has the source. Alas Google Books does not show the footnotes! (Update: Id'd as from Niall Barr's 'Pendulum of War'. Stand easy)

 

Check you email.

Source is The Tiger Kills, pp.231-232

 

I think the Germans reported about 2,000 POW, so 1,000 casualties seems... optimistic...

All the best

Andreas

 

Harper cites as his source the 2004 book 'Pendulum of War' by Niall Barr.

After the battle where did the survivors go? Most information refers to a Roll Call at Amiriya aka Al Amiriyah, an area 18 miles southwest of Alexandria and home to both army and RAF facilities.

Attached is a Table from my research paper for the Roll Call (minus footnotes for brevity).

Sources indicate the remnants joined the 10th Indian Infantry Division. Wiki refers to:

From: 10th Indian Infantry Division - Wikipedia

They went to various garrison postings and returned to combat in Italy in March 1944.

Or the 5th Indian Infantry Division:

From: 5th Infantry Division (India) - Wikipedia

Wiki shows the 18th Brigade as assigned to them, whereas it is not shown with the 10th.

I have not looked in depth at what happened after 1/7/1943.

Would either division have a casualty list in the War Diary or other contemporary document?

 

Is that not footnote 23?

 

Assume this has been seen?

 

Charley,

Harper wrote:

Yes, I have used 'the Tiger Kills', but it does not refer to casualties alas. It refers to losses for the Gurkhas and Sikhs. Harper cites the book in footnotes 20 & 21.

Yes, I have used Compton Mackenzie (though I used the book title and omitted his name from the footnotes, now corrected). He refers to the Gurkhas and Sikhs, not the Essex alas.

 

There will not be a complete accounting for POWs/Casualties from the Brigade anywhere. I am very confident in stating that.

The German figures are also not reliable.

All the best

Andreas

 

If davidbfpo has the time, he might consider searching the 'causalty' reports on FMP or whatever they were formally called.

I recall from my own attempts to cull the 1/4th Essex names post-Matruh that they were reported in big chunks of twenty of thirty names at a time with drips and drabs and updates to their status coming in later.

The problem would be first distinguishing those recorded as merely 'Essex Regiment', and then filtering out all those missing/prisoners later reported as escaped or found.

 

Literally the first one I opened was of the kind I recall.

I have a lot more, but I've no idea how many.