Help required with finding service records for Gordon Highlander serving in pre-war period and WW2

I’m trying to find out more about the army service of my great uncle Thomas John SHEWAN (1899 – 1964) born Garthspool, Lerwick, Shetland on 22 September 1899. He married my grandfather’s sister in 1933.

SHEWAN joined the Shetland Companies the 2/7th Gordon Highlanders, a Territorial company, on 31 August 1914 stating that he was aged 16 years and 9 months when he was aged only 14 years, 11 months. SHEWAN was discharged from the army on 19 November 1915 at an army barracks in Blairgowrie aged 16 years, 2 months on the grounds of being under age.

After his return to Lerwick, Thomas John SHEWAN service no. L 1384 joined the R.N.R. Shetland Section on 21 December 1915 aged 16 years, 3 months. He served as a seaman in the R.N.R. Shetland Section until he was disbanded under a scheme of reorganisation on 5 August 1918 aged 18 years, 10 months. He became subject to the Military Service Acts 1916-1918 and was available to be sent wherever he was required.

SHEWAN’s R.N.R. service record appears to record correspondence (a form RN8) on 30 January 1919 with the Officer Commanding of a Machine Gun Battalion at Rugeley Camp, Staffordshire. This appears to indicate that Thomas John SHEWAN was called up for service in the army sometime in early 1919. Where can I find information about his army service record at that time?

Extract from SHEWAN’s R.N.R. service record from TNA ref BT 377/7/76404



Thomas John SHEWAN is recorded in the 1921 Census on 19 June as living in Lerwick, Shetland and employed as a carpenter.

Thomas John SHEWAN enlists in the army again sometime around 1921/1922. I have his swimming certificate dated 25 July 1922, in Malta which records him as L/Cpl Shewan, T service no. 2869489 serving in D Company of 1st Battalion Gordon Highlanders. I also have a photo of him playing football whilst still in D Company at St Andrew's Barracks, Malta on 18 October 1924. Where can I find information about his army service record at this time?

When Thomas John SHEWAN married my great Aunt Jane Henderson in 1933, his occupation is given as a carpenter.

Thomas John SHEWAN appears to enlist in the army again the during the 2nd World War.
Shetland Roll of Service 1939 to 1945 records: SHEWAN, Thomas John serving as a Sergeant in the 10th (HD) Bn, The Gordon Highlanders. Where can I find information about his army service record at this time?

 

Hi,

As I can only see his Naval Service papers at UK National Archives it would appear that military service papers are still held by UK MOD.

You need to apply to UK MOD via this link -

Get a copy of military records of service

Good Luck

Steve

 

[

Will one application cover the 3 periods of his service (i.e. 1919; 1920s, WW2). How long a wait should I expect.

 

John,

You refer to:

I expect the answer lies within this thread: National Defence Companies - Territorial Army Reserve

Note his age by 1939 would suggest he would not be fit for "active service" so a Home Defence formation could use his skill-set and experience.

On the assumption your information shown is accurate you could research specific places, e.g. the 1st Gordon's time in Malta. Aside from Wiki which can be useful, there is a regimental museum for the Gordon's.

Start a timeline now. Some tips on research en route soon. Good luck.

 

Hi,

Yes. You ought to list all 3 periods of service on the application form. The files may already be filed together.

Waiting time is hard to estimate other than it will be measured in months. If you’ve heard nothing - apart from an acknowledgement of your submission - after 4 months you need to chase it up (then at 3 monthly intervals IMHO).

On the plus side you don’t have to pay up front.

Steve

 

There are two hits for him in the index of service records held by the MoD in 2017, but hopefully if its two separate files they will be combined for you.

Name Tj Shewan
Birth Date 22 Sep 1899
Service Number 2869489
Rank Army Other Ranks, Discharges for 1921-1939
Reference Number ADT000562990

Name Tj Shewan
Birth Date 22 Sep 1899
Service Number 2869489
Rank Army Other Ranks, Discharges for 1939-1971
Additional Regiment GORDON
Reference Number ADH000537028

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discover...067f9e9196&_phsrc=Pyv3&_phstart=successSource

Service number 2869489 was issued by the Gordon Highlanders from their sequence starting 2,865,001. This sequence was first used at the point in 1920/21 when the Gordons renumbered to give each soldier a unique number. This covered not just regulars, but Territorials & reservists. This was done under an Army Order of August 1920. So with his low number it's possible he was serving when the Gordon's were renumbered or joined very soon after that. This number should have followed him through his subsequent army career.

It's worth posting the WW1 queries on the Great War Forum that operates in a similar way to this one & also has some naval experts.
Great War Forum

 

Thanks travers1940

One of the naval experts on the GWF confirmed that RNR Shetland sent Thomas J Shewan's RNR discharge certificate, a form RV8, to the Machine Gun Corps in January 1919. This would indicate that Shewan joined the Machine Gun Corps at that time as he had became liable for compulsory conscription (in the Army) under the terms of the Military Service Act following his discharge from the RNR Shetland Section.

 

I have received reply a today from the MOD regarding the Record of Service for Thomas John Shewan.

They confirmed that a search has been completed within the Ministry of Defence, and confirm that they no longer hold the ROS because it has been transferred to The National Archives (TNA).

The MOD stated that they were treating my application as a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) and to contact TNA as follows:

Should you wish to receive the ROS you will need to submit a new request to TNA.

Accessing Records held by TNA

To request a ROS please use the following link:
Request Closed MOD Personnel Records (nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Does this seem to be the correct procedure?

 

Hi,

Yes but they have sent you the wrong application form link - for a subject born less than 115 years ago.

Complete & submit this online NA FOI application for a subject born over 115 years ago.

Request MOD Personnel Records

Remember to submit proof of death to National Archives.

Steve

 

Thanks Tullybrone. I sent it using the wrong link, should I re send using link for subject born over 115 years ago.

 

Yes. Don’t rely on civil servants to spot your mistake. They’ll just use your error to stop the process and save themselves doing the work.

 

Update, received two emails from TNA yesterday:

"We have conducted a search of our database using the information which you provided to us, and have identified the record ADT000562990: TJ Shewan (Service Number: 2869489), which we believe matches the one you have requested."

"We have identified the record ADH000537028: TJ Shewan (Service Number: 2869489), which matches the second barcode provided to you by the MOD, and the other information provided."

The fee for this paid search will be £24.35 for each search. Which I've paid.

 

Afternoon.

Not sure if you have seen it, but I've found and attached his service record from his TA service.

I couldn't see and other service details for him on fold3

 

Also in case you haven't seen it, there is a picture of his headstone on Billion Graves: Thomas J Shewan? 16 December 1964 in BillionGraves GPS Headstones | BillionGraves

 

Thanks Gareth Smith, for your posts today.

I found his WW1 TA service records a few months ago, which kick started my current research of his service during the inter war years and during WW2. It looks like he joined the services on 5 separate occasions during his lifetime. Sadly I never met this gentlemen, he died before I was born. I do remember his wife who was my great Aunt.

 

Update, received two emails from TNA today:

Thank you for your patience with regards to your Freedom of Information request into the service record....

"It is our legislative duty to inform you that unfortunately, we have not yet been able to provide you with your requested information. We are currently experiencing a very high volume of requests but please be assured that your case is still being progressed. We will next be in touch once your case has been resolved."

I expect I'm in for a long wait for both these service records. Does anyone know what the average turnaround time is now for these TNA records using FoI request mechanism ?

 

Hi,

I’d give it 4 months and if you haven’t heard anything pester them with an email for an update every 4 weeks.

Other members have posted time delay updates on this topic -

MOD ALREADY TRANSFERRING WW2 SERVICE FILES TO UK NATIONAL ARCHIVES 2021