I would like to find any consensus in an idea, that I can't find anywhere on Normandy, yet seems very plausible when looking at the facts. It's been my long held belief, that Von Kluge, after learning of the failed attempt to kill Hitler, sought out the allied command, hence his 12 hours disappearance, and in agreement with Rommel, opened up the Normandy Front and allowed the US breakout towards Avranche. For nearly two months the Germans were containing the allies, then such a catastrophic collapse comes about once Hitler has known to survive. It's clear that Rommel held the view that it would be better for Germany, if the western allies reached Berlin first, and allowing the allies to breakout and cross France would help to achieve this.I believe Hitler understand Rommel's motives and is why he was afforded a state funeral, as there would have been no chance of a decent ending, and the safety of Rommel's family had Hitler thought he was complicent in the assassination attempt on the Fuhrer's life. It's no secret that Rommel advised Hitler to make a separate peace with the West, and opening up the Normandy Front, could have swayed Hitler's thoughts in who reached Berlin first, as at this juncture of the war, he knew it could not be salvaged. Any thoughts?
Do you have any evidence in which to ground this or is it 100% speculation? I mean, even your statement that the Germans had been containing the Allies ignores the degree of buildup of Allied forces or the attrition done to the Germans.
Wow! For your very first post, that's a bold move. There are plenty of places on the internet that will welcome your ideas with open arms. This is not one of them. This site is for people interested in history - not storytellers wanting to make up and discuss fantasies. I suggest you try AHF. They love a good story where the basis of the narrative is that the Germans were indeed the superior race better at everything and only had the misfortune to lose the war on some scurrilous actions of some naughty chaps to let the enemy win.
Incorrect. The Germans were not 'containing' the Allies. They were being ground down by the Allied tactic to attrite them to the point were they finally unable to keep a continuous front and they were defeated. The Germans did not gift The Allies their victory it was an inevitable result of their defeat in battle.
Dunoh, Seriously? If someone suggested the German football team let the English beat them 2 nil - as they didn't think that Germany could win the European Championship and didn't themselves want to have to play Ukraine in the next "match"... ;-) One would wonder similarly... :-( perhaps ;-)
Possibly, but Rommel did nothing of the sort, on the contrary, he devoted all his energy to making the Normandy defences stronger and to try and destroy the beachhead. Rommel was ordered to commit suicide precisely because Hitler thought he was part of the conspiracy (why else?). The safety of his family was part of the deal, as well as a way to maintain appearances, as was the state funeral, held because Rommel was a very popular figure by then. If you believe is true, why would Kluge not have had a state funeral too?
If Von Kluge and Rommel "opened up " the Normandy front it appears there was a floor in the plan , they forgot to tell the units fighting in Normandy !!
What about the delayed attack by the two German army's under Von Kluge towards Avranche, was he waiting to see the outcome of the attempt on Hitler's life.There is a case also regarding the Falaise gap, what should have been the easiest encirclement in WW2 by the allies never occurred.Is it possible that some sort of agreement was in place, where Rommel had agreed terms with the allies that allowed the bulk to escape if the Wermacht left their heavy weapons behind, which the allies claimed was enough equipment to prolong the war in the West, hence my thoughts that the Germans could have contained the allies longer in Normandy.Rommels orders to his men, to either return home, or join other units is interesting, as again he felt the only hope for Germany was the Western Allies to reach Berlin before the Russians.This is my whole thesis on this thread, no agendas, and it's certainly not a conventional theory Bourne out of sources or highbrow thinking, but war at times can have strange twists and turns, is it not in the realms of possibility that the German Generals in the West, witnessing allied strength especially in the air, considered that after Hitler's survival, the allies would never negotiate with him and believed the best they could hope for was to get the Western Allies to Berlin before the Russians.
Not only is it not a 'conventional theory' it is complete and utter shyte. The Bilderbergers Conspiracy theory of WW2 popular with morons. I do not think you are genuine but I will indulge. Here is a book you will love. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eisenhower-Montgomery-at-Falaise-Gap/dp/1441597972 Written by a demented Anglophobic Monty-hater it packed full of 'big-bad Monty and the duplicitous Brits conspired to let the Germans escape from Normandy' bollocks. Have yourself a really wonderful alternate reality orgasm as you read it.
Sorry we dont like to tell people how to think but the idea is complete balderdash.I think you know that. The Normandy battle was as it states a Battle.Very bloody and severe on all counts as were all the battles. The Allies pushed through to end the war and the determination was there to remove the axis threat all over the word it is as simple as that. hitler was a mental head and control freak amongst other things and to be honest was as thick as shite for thinking his way or the highway.He never listened to anyone.A mad bully with a grudge. Does anyone know the size of hitlers feet?
Thanks m Kenny , I'll take my leave from here, your reply and insults has put me off reading for a long time. I can't believe the venomous replies to what was a theory I had simply wondered about in my interest in WW2. Wouldn't it be kinder as another war enthusiast simply to say, no I don't think your theory stands up, give some constructive criticism.
With the greatest of respect, this is utter nonsense with no historical evidence to support it. There are quite a few people, mainly on the extreme right who try to find excuses for the German defeat in 1945 - a WW2 Durchstoss. About 15 years ago historian and battlefield guide Tim Saunders made contact with SS Veteran Hubert Meyer, sometime Ia of 12 SS Pz and the divisional historian and thought he had made a historical coup and access to a new primary source on the battle for Normandy. I attended a presentation at RUSI given by the professor of German who interviewed Meyer. (Tim was not there) The result was a restatement of the durchstoss myth. How the 12 SS had been sent deliberately away from Normandy on D Day by Speidel and how Army Group B was full of anti Nazi conspirators , led by Speidel, who undermined Hitler's plans at every turn etc. Anthony Beavoir demolished this from the floor. It is the neo Nazi - or in Meyer's case actual Nazi - myth. The paranoia that Hitler felt about the German Army's senior generals may have been real, but this has everything to do with the German Armed Force rather than those of Britain, its Empire and Commonwealth. Try this thread on the Axis History Forum which specializes in the German side. There are plenty of threads concerning alternative history and speculation where you may find people willing to discuss the topic
Is it possible that you were abducted by aliens last night and, whilst still asleep, had your brain impregnated with neo-nazi fantasies? You may find that a really stupid thought. But it has exactly the same level of intellectual reasoning as your nonsense: a completely invented narrative to fill a space in time that you cannot account for. No agenda???? The whine of an agenda having been caught out! What interest in WW2? Your "theory" (read agenda) is all about telling a fantasy that was not WW2. The idea that American, British, Canadian and Polish commanders and troops connived with the non-SS Germans to let German formations escape complete destruction is utter lunacy. The idea that the Germans were winning in Normandy and were ordered to run by naughty non-SS Germans in agreement with the Allies is complete lunacy. It is the theory (agenda) of the neo-nazi fringe desperate to understand how their idols of racial supremacy were beaten. You are not interested in WW2. You are interested in aryan fantasies.
Thanks Sheldrake, I appreciate your answer and will have a look at that forum, sorry if I offended anyone but it was a genuine thought on Normandy, after reading The other side of the hill by Liddel Hart.
Cheers Mark n, there's always one, In my defence...... containment.....Caen allied target on day one, still I German hands two months later......fact.German counter attack at Avranche....two days later than when ordered....fact. We must fear allied air power.....Rommel,. The Falaise Gap........the largest debacle to encircle an army......Patton. Montgomery.....the war will be over in 44.
If you have a genuine interest in the history of WW2, then you will be happy reading up about each of those events to understand their true historical import, relevance and how they came to be as they were. It is not a secret or a mystery. Alternatively, you could make up a fantasy narrative that has nothing to do with history and everything to do with trying to sustain a nazi myth.
...but be prepared to take a severe lashing on that other forum as well, because there are plenty of knowledgeable members there too, not all of them caring to wear gloves when rebuking crazy fantasies, especially since you are providing absolutely zero source to support your "theory". Compared to what you will probably receive, the replies you got here will feel like caresses
Wrong. You can not even get the actual historical facts right. I will indulge: Given your 'study' of WW2 Can you list me the consequences that flowed from 'the failure to take Caen' on June 6 and how this 'failure' impacted the Allied plans? What would happened in Caen was taken on June 6th and how would it have changed the way the war was fought in NWE 1944-45. Or even_what were the Allied plans for the NWE Campaign? Any one from three will do.
