Portsmouth (Highbury Estate) Land Mine .....

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Steve G, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Might I have, perchance, cracked this one?

    During the war, a 'Land Mine' was dropped on the south east corner of the Highbury Estate, Cosham. It took out a sizeable chunk of this purely residential area. The event has been mentioned, at least a couple of times on this forum. I've always suggested they might have been going for the railway bridge, only yards to the south beneath Portscreek Junction..

    Well, look what I've just happened across, mouching through a vast collection of Pompey photo's I have here!


    [​IMG]



    I reckon I've just cracked it! :D
     
  2. James Daly

    James Daly Senior Member

    Steve, In Portsmouth Library's Local Studies section there is a large folder full of Luftwaffe aerial photographs, target maps etc very similar to this. Do you know when the Land Mine was dropped? I gather that in the early part of the war the Luftwaffe wasn't capable of bombing too accurately. I wouldnt rule out the Airport as a target, it was where Airspeed was based and where the Oxford and Horsa were designed and many built.
     
  3. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Sadly, James, I've no idea when. But, I lived on the Highbury for a few years and my mates Dad told him about it ~ though he, in turn, would have heard of it second hand. They lived in the new maisonettes built on the 'cleared corner' of the estate, see?

    Are ye familiar with the south eastern end of Highbury? Hawthorn Crescent, I believe it was. Bloody great area, just south west of the church. Used to be semi d's :( Grim.
     
  4. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    I know it very well I lived there for years, spent lots of time exploring the creek area where there is a lot of military history and remember when the unexploded german mines under the Railway bridge where found during the contructon of the M27.
     
  5. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    :huh: Good lord! I never heard about those! What sort of mines were they? Water born or dropped bombs?
     
  6. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    :huh: Good lord! I never heard about those! What sort of mines were they? Water born or dropped bombs?

    It was said that they where planted by frogmen who came up langstone harbour and tried to do the dirty deed, but this might only be a rumour, we tend to forget how importent the Portsbridge railway crossing was to the war effort, most of the ammunition for the Royal Navy came by rail so it was well protected with Ack Ack around the bridge & pillboxs guarding the crossing.
     
  7. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    [​IMG] Blimey!!! That's (almost) unthinkable! And, ye know what? Only tonight, since our earlier exchange, I was looking at the photo I'd shown, above, and imagining what it would've been like for the Germans to have launched a commando raid on that armaments factory.

    Now, that's what I decided this Land Mine attack was likely aimed at. But, I'd earlier figured it must have been that bridge. 'Tend to forget how important the bridge was'? Not at all. I actually stated, in an earlier thread touching on this subject ("Land Mines" ?) that I perceived that bridge as being a great place to take out. As it would indeed have cut a major arterial connection with the mainland.

    But, Frogmen sticking mines on it??? Right under that Pillbox too! That's sexy stuff, isn't it? Our creek. They could make a film about it; " The Krauts Who Came to Cosham Creek " :lol:

    All joking aside though? Doesn't wash, does it? Ye know, as well as I do that A/ That tide drops far enough that it'd expose anything stuck on those piers and B/ The road works wouldn't have led to anything much going on down there that hadn't been done before.

    There's only that dinky little slip way, to the west side and 'footpath' under the north end. I can't see local people not having walked under there by low tide. Anything untoward would've long since been spotted.

    Anyway; How come they'd have gone to all the trouble of getting this mine attached to the bridge, then scuttled back off to Germany, without blowing the thing?

    Might it possibly be that an unexploded (Land) Mine was dug out, where the road now runs? Any sort of bomb, come to that. They would have sealed the area off and the public would only hear the whispers. Given the history of that couple of hundred square yards, it wouldn't take much for an unexploded bomb, down that end, to become another 'Mine'. And .....

    Where's James? Come on, James; You're our bright young thing on the ground here. Get digging :D


    Anyway, Medic; " Pillboxes guarding the crossing." ? Plural? I only ever remember the one on the east side. Had there been one on the west? On that patch of ground to the left, as ye come out of the tunnel?
     
  8. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    A possible date for the aerial mine could be 11th April 1941 as Geoff's Search Engine records 6 Civilian War Dead Casualties for Cosham (Highbury Grove, Hardy Road, Second Avenue).
    Without entering a specific date and using "Cosham" as a parameter, there are other possible dates, I'll leave you to establish if any other date is more likely..
     
    von Poop likes this.
  9. James Daly

    James Daly Senior Member

    A possible date for the aerial mine could be 11th April 1941 as Geoff's Search Engine records 6 Civilian War Dead Casualties for Cosham (Highbury Grove, Hardy Road, Second Avenue).
    Without entering a specific date and using "Cosham" as a parameter, there are other possible dates, I'll leave you to establish if any other date is more likely..

    I will have a look at the Portsmouth Evening News on microfilm next time I am in the library. It might not have too many details, in a lot of cases the reporting seems to have not referred to casualty numbers or specific areas or roads. But might be worth a look.
     
  10. James Daly

    James Daly Senior Member

    Where's James? Come on, James; You're our bright young thing on the ground here. Get digging :D



    hmmm this is getting very interesting indeed, have we got our very own counterpart to the cockleshell heroes? :huh:

    I haven't heard or read anything about a commando raid on Hilsea Creek. Having said that, I would not be surprised if 1) its an urban myth; or 2) if such a thing did happen then news of it would have been supressed. Imagine the impact on morale, German frogmen in the Solent?

    From photographs I have seen I don't think Langstone Harbour was as well guarded as Portsmouth Harbour, so it would not have been impossible to get up to Portscreek through that way. Langstone Harbour is relatively quiet and there arent so many houses or other adjoining it either. From a German point of view, it certainly would have been worth at least looking at. The only sticking point might have been getting through the narrow entrance to the harbour, which has Fort Cumberland overlooking it. Langstone harbour was not defended by any kind of boom or anti-submarine blocks either.

    As Steve mentioned though at low tide the water recedes almost completely and Portscreek is pretty much a tiny channel a few feet wide and deep. Not only that but it would have been difficult for them to hide up in daylight anywhere in the area, its not like the Gironde Estuary. It would have had to have been an in and out in one night job I think.
     
  11. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Geoff's Search Engine records 6 Civilian War Dead Casualties for Cosham (Highbury Grove, Hardy Road, Second Avenue).



    Hmm. No idea where Hardy Rd is. Second Ave ~ I believe? ~ is up north west, in Cosham, proper. Highbury Grove? I believe that's the third big run of the Highbury. That's south, parallel with Portscreek. Then, going north we have Chatsworth Avenue and then Hawthorn Crescent. Never heard a dickie bird about Highbury Grove catching one.

    What I did read though was how some Royal Navy chap, home for a spot of shore leave, I believe, ducked into the entrance way of Highbury Buildings ~ at the western / top end of between Chatsworth and Hawthorn. Just as the place took a hit and brought the lot straight down on top of the poor sod!

    But, that, as ye can see, has no bearing on Highbury Grove either.

    Really is seeming like the more we probe, the more damn confused it all gets, doesn't it? :unsure:

    This mess needs clearing up, James. Nice little project for ye there. Right on ye doorstep too ..... ;)
     
  12. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    [​IMG]

    :D Thats where my house was build in the mid 60s (Bomb Landed Here)

    The Land mines where found around 1970s when the builders of the M27 had to remove the large spoil heap that sat in-between the central span of the railway bridge due to a severe restriction of tidal water causing problems to the bridge that is also why the old Peronne road military crossing was also removed.

    Anyway, Medic; " Pillboxes guarding the crossing." ? Plural? I only ever remember the one on the east side. Had there been one on the west? On that patch of ground to the left, as ye come out of the tunnel?

    You are correct there is only one Pillboxs on the northside however I understand there was machine gun emplacements on the hilsea side overlooking the Railway bridge . I am sure James will be able to confirm this
     
  13. James Daly

    James Daly Senior Member

    You are correct there is only one Pillboxs on the northside however I understand there was machine gun emplacements on the hilsea side overlooking the Railway bridge . I am sure James will be able to confirm this

    That is correct. Its on my agenda for a recce to take some pics over christmas, so we can see the lie of the land. From my recollection it looks like one of the hasty concrete constructions that was put up in 1940. I'm trying to think of the logic of placing it on the north side facing south across the creek... perhaps it was to keep watch on the crossing. No one with any sense would have tried to attack Portsmouth from the south, there were serious gun emplacements all along Southsea seafront.
     
  14. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    That is correct. Its on my agenda for a recce to take some pics over christmas, so we can see the lie of the land. From my recollection it looks like one of the hasty concrete constructions that was put up in 1940. I'm trying to think of the logic of placing it on the north side facing south across the creek... perhaps it was to keep watch on the crossing. No one with any sense would have tried to attack Portsmouth from the south, there were serious gun emplacements all along Southsea seafront.

    There was a Signalboxs on the northbound side which was removed also in the 70s to make room for the M27 bridge over the line, this was protected by the Pillbox as this is where the lines from the East & West met prior to crossing the bridge so had a very strategic military importants,
     
  15. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    :huh: What? A spoil heap in the creek, under the bridge? Wonder what that was doing there. And one would've thought who ever put it there might have spotted mines? Then again; I don't s'pose we generally go looking for such things when dumping spoil. Still like to know why they were never detonated though. Weird situation.

    And so; That's a WW2 emplacement, is it? Up on top of the " East Centre Curtain ", if my memory still holds? (I think it was around there somewhere, the one I'm thinking of)

    How about the other stuff along the top of Hilsea Lines? cross Perone Rd. I remember there's what I'd always taken to be an 'Anti Aircraft' gun emplacement there. All those 'Anderson sort of shelters, I'd been given to understand, were Palmerston's doing. But the gun place was quite different. Concrete jobby.

    And, how about as ye scramble up the bank from Perone Rd? Little, brick built Pillbox at the top of the bank. Evil little thing. Wouldn't know it was there till it was too late! ;)

    Murder. I remember all these things and I know where they are. But, I'll simply never have another chance to investigate them, now that I've become fascinated by them. Just took them for granted, back then.
     
  16. Medic7922

    Medic7922 Senior Member

    Steve G, As you must have remembered all the area around the Hilsea lines was all military from the old Palmerston fortifications to the gun emplacements and underground ammo storage which overlook Portsmouth Harbour from the Lido and rugby camp next to the railway, there where fears that frogmen could have entered Portsmouth Harbour via the creek which is why the Peronne road crossing was built to help get military hardware across to Portsea island and to protect the north end of the harbour, that is why only small tubes were installed under the crossing.
     
  17. James Daly

    James Daly Senior Member

    Did the Germans have any units that could have attempted anything like this? I know the Italians had some pretty intrepid frogmen who operated in the Med.

    Having said that, I'm not sure there were that many major ships using Portsmouth during the war at any one time. As far as I can tell I think there were only ever one or two battleships and/or cruisers in port at any one time due to the risk of air attack.
     
  18. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    :unsure: Right. Ok. I'm getting lost here, and I think I might have a clue how / why. This " Perone Rd Crossing " ? Ye Not talking about the blue bridge there, are ye? That's totally post war ~ I'd certainly imagine so, anyway.

    Now, ye have to realise, see, that I'm only in the least bit familiar with that area since about 1970 or so. So, in fact, I have no concept of what it was like before they ran the road through it and, in the process, presumably laid that concrete footpath along the north side of the creek.

    That, I'm figuring, is when they put up the blue bridge that now takes one across the creek and down into Perone Rd. Yeah?

    So, Medic; Are you referring to some earlier bridge, between the railway bridge and Portsbridge (pre doughnut) which I've simply never been aware of? It seems most likely there must have been one. Can't see why Perone Rd would have ran up to the creek and stopped. But, I honestly never gave it a thought that there might have been an earlier road bridge at that spot :huh:
     
  19. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    :D Ok. Getting there ..... I think? They built a road across the creek to Perone in 1940. That was in case Portscreek Bridge got blown up.

    So; I take it This (below) is the Perone Rd road / bridge, complete with spoil heap? Is it This that they'd mined? Only, I seem to be getting confused between this one ~ of which I never knew the existence! ~ and the railway bridge, further east.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. James Daly

    James Daly Senior Member

    It looks like that road was built to go straight into the Army camp at Hilsea - I think it was RAOC.

    I guess the crux of it is that Portsmouth was indeed rather vulnerable, given it was a city of 200,000 people, the principal Naval Dockyard, and had three roads and one rail line on and off the island.
     

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