South Africans in Italian POW Camps

Discussion in 'South African' started by HilikusZA, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. HilikusZA

    HilikusZA Junior Member

    Hi All,

    I am trying to track my grandfather's progress through the war. I was hoping that someone might have lists of the internees at POW camps in Italy?

    My grandfather was Major Herbert Henry Greenwood (26080) and lead the 1st South African Division, 5th South African Infantry Brigade, 9th Field Battery, 3rd SA Field Battalion in Operation Crusader in 1941 under the command of Brig B.F. ARMSTRONG.

    He was captured near Sidi Rezeg on 23 / 24 November 1941 and was taken to a POW camp in Italy where he later escaped along with Captain Hugh Beresford Jobling.

    I was hoping that someone might have a list of internees so that I can find which POW camp he was sent to. Also if anyone could maybe let me know what unit he was reassigned to when he rejoined the war to fight in Italy.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hillikus -
    there are many on the forum who have lists of POW's and camps etc - but as you probably know by now there was only one Sth African division in Italy - the 6th S.A. Armoured - after the fall of Rome and so he would have joined them from Chiusi onto past the Florence area to the end of the war with the US 5th Army
    Cheers - hope this helps...
    Cheers
     
  3. AussieHid

    AussieHid Junior Member

    Hello Hilikus,

    I can't help you with your POW question, but my aunt and I have a book that we have just found 4 references to your grandfather in if you're interested. The book is Volume 1 of Clear The Way which is all about the SA Irish. You may already have access to the book, but if you don't, let me know and I'll scan some pages for you. :)

    My grandfather was in the SA Irish in 5 SA Infantry. He was returned to SA for treatment for a major stomach ulcer a week or so before the brigade left Mombasa for Egypt in '41.
     
  4. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    Hi Hilikus

    Your grandfather is also mentioned in the South African official history of WW2, Volume 5, Victory in Italy at page 265It [the 6th SA Armoured Division] had become one of the most versatile and experienced fighting formations amongst the Allied forces in Italy. Many of its officers and other ranks had served not only in Italy, but also in Kenya, Abyssinia and the Middle East ... Some, in fact, had even spent months behind barbed wire in enemy prisoner-of-war camps after capture in the desert and had escaped to rejoin their units and fight again.*
    The asterisk refers to the following footnote:* Among these were Lt-Col I. B. Whyte, DSO, ED, who had been awarded the DSO for also helping others through enemy lines, and took over 1/6 Fd Regt, CFA when Lt-Col C. A. Fraser was admitted to hospital; Lt-Col C. T. Howie, who had been decorated with the Polish Polonia Restituita for his service during a daring escape, and took over 1/12 Lt/AA Regt; Lt-Col H. Greenwood of 7/23 Med Regt, SAA; Capt Bobby Hone of FC/CTH; Capt Mick Mentis, SAA, and numerous others.
     
  5. tarquini

    tarquini Member

    Hello,

    I have a complete list of South African Pows in Italy. Major H.H. Greenwood was in camp 47 at Modena in Northern Italy.

    Regards,

    Tarquini
     
  6. wartopia

    wartopia Junior Member

    Dear HilikusZA,

    i apologize for cross, referencing.

    A complete list of all South African POW's in Italian camps and German camps , can also be found at the Military Archives in Pretoria in the Schweikert building.


    Kind regards
     
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  7. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

  8. DesB

    DesB Junior Member

    Hi Tarquini,

    I would be very grateful if you could locate which camp Cpl Frank V. Lightfoot no. 31047 was in. He was in the rear guard at Gazala and was taken POW June 14 1942. He apparently later escaped and hid out in the hills of Regio Emilia.

    Thanks
     
  9. Barbo

    Barbo Junior Member

    Three brothers - Ernest Dumaresq, Paul Hamilton and Peter Hamilton from South Africa fought in 2nd World War (8th Army - North Africa, Italy). Peter was my father. I'd like to know more about what happened to him as he wouldn't really talk about his experiences. He was a POW in Italy and then in Germany. He once mentioned a camp near Bitterfeld and being liberated by the Americans. My grandmother had a photo of him - quite skeletal - sent to her by the Red Cross. He also mentioned having Black Water Fever and being given experimental drugs by the German doctor, which saved his life. Can any one help me find out about the camp, a list of POWs.
     
  10. tarquini

    tarquini Member

    Hello,

    Capt FV Lightfoot was in Camp 52 which was at Chiavari on the Ligurian coast.
     
  11. tarquini

    tarquini Member

    Three brothers - Ernest Dumaresq, Paul Hamilton and Peter Hamilton from South Africa fought in 2nd World War (8th Army - North Africa, Italy). Peter was my father. I'd like to know more about what happened to him as he wouldn't really talk about his experiences. He was a POW in Italy and then in Germany. He once mentioned a camp near Bitterfeld and being liberated by the Americans. My grandmother had a photo of him - quite skeletal - sent to her by the Red Cross. He also mentioned having Black Water Fever and being given experimental drugs by the German doctor, which saved his life. Can any one help me find out about the camp, a list of POWs.
    Hello Barbo,

    I have found a P.G. Hamilton L/Cpl 176162 and a P.S Hamilton L/Cpl 93262, both interned in Camp 53 Sforzacosta near Macerata in Italy. P.S. Hamilton was then sent to STALAG 4B. POW NUMBER 266899. Salag 4B was at Muhlberg/Elbe, Brandenburg, Germany.

    Regards,
    Tarquini
     
  12. tarquini

    tarquini Member

    Hi All,

    I am trying to track my grandfather's progress through the war. I was hoping that someone might have lists of the internees at POW camps in Italy?

    My grandfather was Major Herbert Henry Greenwood (26080) and lead the 1st South African Division, 5th South African Infantry Brigade, 9th Field Battery, 3rd SA Field Battalion in Operation Crusader in 1941 under the command of Brig B.F. ARMSTRONG.

    He was captured near Sidi Rezeg on 23 / 24 November 1941 and was taken to a POW camp in Italy where he later escaped along with Captain Hugh Beresford Jobling.

    I was hoping that someone might have a list of internees so that I can find which POW camp he was sent to. Also if anyone could maybe let me know what unit he was reassigned to when he rejoined the war to fight in Italy.

    Thanks!
    Hello,

    Your grandfather and Captain Joblinig were in an officers' camp - camp 47 at Modena, Italy

    Regards,

    Tarquini
     
  13. jeremy.sadler

    jeremy.sadler Junior Member

    My father mentions a Major Greenwood that was in Tobruk in 1942 at the fall. In fact my father (Mike Sadler) ran messages for Major Greenwood during the battle.

    Here are some references from his book:
    "
    Early in March, Major Greenwood announced one day, ‘Next week - new twenty-five pounders. Must calibrate ‘em. Right? Know the drill? This battery - one of the best. No question. But must have guns. Right?’ He brushed his moustache with the knuckles of his left hand - a characteristic gesture. ‘Carry on, Sergeant Major.’ Then he saluted and marched away briskly but his announcement was greeted with a mixed response. Those of us who had just joined the battery were glad to know that we would be moving to the front line, but most of the “old lot” were still hoping to be sent home on leave and the thought of going back into action against Rommel did not appeal to them.
    "

    and
    "
    Having made coffee for Major Greenwood, Sergeant Hutton, Frikkie Oosthuzen and myself, I then was told that Major Greenwood and Ser-
    142
    geant Hutton would like fried eggs for breakfast and, having cooked that on my petrol-sand stove, I then had to re-pack the truck and check the radio. Nevertheless, I was in my seat and ready to depart at the stated time of seven o’clock - except for one thing. I had not had time to fill and light my pipe. So I opened my pack and took out my packet of “Wayside Mixture”, filled my tobacco pouch and started filling my pipe. Meanwhile, all the other trucks in the convoy had started up and were moving into line. Sergeant Hutton climbed up on to Bessie and dropped down into the well, followed by Frikkie Oosthuzen. Then Ma-jor Greenwood climbed up and stood in the well, looking back along the line of vehicles. At that moment Captain Robinson marched across and saluted Major Greenwood.
    ‘All ready to move, Sir,’ he said.
    ‘Yes, so I see,’ Major Greenwood replied. ‘We’re just waiting for Sadler to light his pipe.’
    ‘Oh, my God! Stop the War!!!’ Captain Robinson exclaimed sarcasti-cally. ‘Sadler’s pipe’s not alight.’ I took no notice, but puffed away un-til I was sure that it was properly alight. Then I nodded to Major Green-wood.
    ‘Right, sir,’ I said. ‘All present and correct, sir. Carry on.’
    ‘Get on with you, Sadler,’ he growled. “Start the engine.” And a mo-ment later we were once more leading the 9th Battery on towards the defence of Tobruk.
    "
    He references Major Greenwood many times but at the end says:

    "However, after he escaped in 1943 from Italy and returned to South Africa, Major Greenwood kindly wrote to my parents, telling them that I had served willingly and efficiently – or words to that effect which they great valued."

    I wonder if this is the sameMajor Greenwood.
    My fathers book can be purchased from Amazon.com. See www.mikesadlerbooks.com .

    I hope this helps.

    Jeremy
     
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  14. Claire2

    Claire2 Junior Member

    Hello,

    My grandfather, Ronald Arthur Wilcox no. 31115, was in the Transvaal Horse Artillery. He was also captured at Sidi Rezeg. He was in Camp 52, Camp 107 (both in Italy). We believe he may have escaped from from Camp 52, afterwhich he was recaptured 18 months later. He was then put in camp 107 and transfered to Stalag 4B when Italy capitulated. I would like to know if he is on the POW list?
     
  15. Claire2

    Claire2 Junior Member

    My grandfather was Ronald Arthur Wilcox who was in 3rd Unit South African Field Artillery. He was in camp 52 and camp 107 in Italy. He also escaped and was looked after by Italians for I heard 18 months. He was then sent to Stalig IVB till 1945. It would great to hear if anyone knew him or of him. Thanking you
     
  16. Elize

    Elize Junior Member

    Hello,

    I have a complete list of South African Pows in Italy. Major H.H. Greenwood was in camp 47 at Modena in Northern Italy.

    Regards,

    Tarquini
    Hello
    I believe that my late father was in 3 different camps in Italy Camp 54, Camp 75, and Camp 110. His name was Barend Carolus van Tubbergh - I would love to know whether you have any further details and dates for me. I also believe that he escaped, but as he never spoke about his experiences my knowledge is very sketchy, and I would be grateful for any information.
     
  17. I am researching the Italian camp at Plemo camp PG 62/51.
    Were South African prisoners there?
     
  18. Graham Ross

    Graham Ross Junior Member

    Hello,

    I am new to this site and I would like information on my father, Eric Munro Ross and two of his friends. Thomas Cardo and Zirk (Zerk) Lloyd. All South African Pow's in Italy. Many thanks, Graham.
     
  19. Geotrac

    Geotrac Member

    Hello,

    My grandfather, Ronald Arthur Wilcox no. 31115, was in the Transvaal Horse Artillery. He was also captured at Sidi Rezeg. He was in Camp 52, Camp 107 (both in Italy). We believe he may have escaped from from Camp 52, afterwhich he was recaptured 18 months later. He was then put in camp 107 and transfered to Stalag 4B when Italy capitulated. I would like to know if he is on the POW list?

    Hi Claire,

    See attached with your GF's name on. Check out | Powvets There is some interesting reading! Stalag4B was situated in Germany, about 120kms NNE of Nuremburg. Was your GF from SA? Regards, George :D
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Geotrac

    Geotrac Member

    Hello
    I believe that my late father was in 3 different camps in Italy Camp 54, Camp 75, and Camp 110. His name was Barend Carolus van Tubbergh - I would love to know whether you have any further details and dates for me. I also believe that he escaped, but as he never spoke about his experiences my knowledge is very sketchy, and I would be grateful for any information.

    Hi Elize,

    My GF was also in Camp 54 (amongst many others!) and ended up in Poland at STALAG 8B (which later became STALAG344). Who knows, maybe they were together, as they were both with the SAP. Maybe they were even buddies! You can request copies of his military records at sandfdoc@mweb.co.za I only waited about 3 weeks. Also, there is a website dedicated to Camp 54 (at Fara Sabina, Italy) which makes for interesting reading. Campo PG 54 - Fara Sabina Also see attached. Best regards, George.
     

    Attached Files:

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