The German Invasion of the Netherlands - May 1940

Just a mite too slow

 

Some other good sources of books on the Dutch war with English material are:
Lanasta Publishers
Lanasta // Home

More aircraft and ships titles available too.

Dutch Profile:
Publications - Dutch Profile


And the following books from Giesbers Media (available from hobby stores still)

 

Don't know much about aircraft, and we're talking 1940 (tanks in 1940 also were different from those in 1944): too slow in the air, or too slow in taking off?

 

Too slow in the air

 

When Holland was invaded by the Germans,there were only 23 Fokker G.1a aircraft available for front line availability.Its specification was as a Heavy Fighter and Close Support aircraft It's armament was impressive but it lacked the fitting of the two Madsen 23 mm cannons which was behind in delivery when it engaged with the Luftwaffe.It had some versatility,it could carry a 880 lb bomb load.

The Luftwaffe took the aircraft from the assembly line as fighter trainers away from the front line operations in Bavaria.The aircraft missed the opportunity to be tried and tested for a number were caught on the ground at the Waalhaven and Bergen airfields during the initial Luftwaffe raids,


The Danish and Swedish government orders for the aircraft were thus never fulfilled.Spain tried to purchase the aircraft but were denied it and the Estonian government attempted to buy it but was also denied as the Dutch considered that Estonia was acting as a purchasing agent for Franco.

It would be wrong to assess the aircraft as a "mite too slow" and neglect its overall performance which it was never able to fully prove.Certainly no match for the Luftwaffe who had been formed for an early war. As regards the Fokker G 1a being a dedicated fighter,there were not many aircraft in Western Europe that could,challenge the Luftwaffe, except the Hurricane and the Spitfire.

Max airspeed was 295 mph.It was a heavy fighter,its all up weight was 10560 lbs compared to RAF fighters.
Hurricane Mark 1....Max airspeed 316 mph at 17500 feet with an all up weight of 6600 lbs.
Spitfire Mark 1.. ....Max airspeed 355 mph at 19000 feet with an all up weight of 5784 lbs.

Stolpi........Good video of the Fokker G.1,its development and operational history....may have had a greater max airspeed had a more powerful engine been available, but overall a heavy aircraft as a fighter.

 

Performance.... airspeed. It comes back to one of my colleagues who was a ground technical engineer on Vulcans with No 83 Squadron who always stressed...it's all about the power/ weight ratio.

For interest.the Lancaster from 1942 had 4 engines at about 1650 kw,say 6.6 Mw with an all up weight of 68000 lbs.

Now compare that with the Vulcan B 2 of 4 engines of approximately 17 Mw each giving an output of 68 Mws with an all up weight of 168000 lbs.

 

Compared to the heavy fighters used by other nations - eg. Me 110 , Bristol Beaufighter definitely too slow. What is this overall performance to which you refer?

 

You obviously did not understand my post and you respond with one of your usual glib postings

Let's start off by recording that the Bf 110 F had superior engines of 1300 hp with an all up weight of 15300 lbs and was designed to be a long range day and escort fighter.The Dutch Fokker G 1a could not compete with that specification.It was a weapon which was designed for the war that Hitler was planning with little procurement restriction costs under the likes of Goerings with his responsibility for the Four Year Plan,the conduit for the rearmament of Germany.

Then looking at the Beaufighter which was designed as a night fighter and anti shipping strikefighter. it had two engines of either 1670 hp or 1772 hp.It was an exceptional aircraft offering speed and firepower as a night fighter and fulfilled the role in Coastal Command as a strike fighter loaded with rockets and torpedos. By the time the Mark V1 appeared it could carry about 10000 lb of armaments included in its all up weight of 25000 lbs

Both types had very good max airspeeds which followed their engine power output.Despite it's weight as a night fighter,it could shift, reaching over 330 mph at 15600 feet with a ceiling of 26500 feet which was not good enough when the Luftwaffe introduced their high flying intruders over southern England.

The Dutch G-1a could never out perform these aircraft,the Dutch aircraft ceased production in 1940 so there was never a question of it being developed into something better.It certainly lacked more powerful engines which the Dutch thought at the best, would be the RR Kestrel

As I said its overall performance was never able to be proved,its involvement in aerial warfare was minuscule.There was never a case of this aircraft transforming itself as AVROs did with the transformation of the Manchester to the Lancaster.

 

Its a very simple point its performance was not good enough for the WW2 environment and despite your gratuitous insults I stand by this - oh and BTW you haven't answered my question

 

Whatever is said on this forum, your glib and snide comments continue to be a feature of your postings.

 

This book is ridiculously expensive. I have the Dutch version of it (now sold for € 40,00 hardcover-edition).

 

It is a little cheaper direct from the publisher, May 1940 – The Battle for the Netherlands | Brill.

 

Amazing facts - I learned something new today. Thanks for the enlightening post. Indeed, hardly anyone outside of the Netherlands is familiar with this aspect of the battles fought in 1940. In Germany it was eclipsed by celebrating what many German's regarded as the "triumph in the west"...

 

For those interested in the war in Holland in 1940, there is a new book that looks at an interesting event of the time.

Quote from :No. 600 Squadron (RAF) during the Second World War



Target Waalhaven 10 mei 1940. De dappere maar dramatisch aanval van het Britse No. 600 (City of London) Squadron op vliegveld Waalhaven

It's bilingual and very well done with some great pictures.

 

I'm trying to model the 12 Heinkel He59 floatplanes that landed troops in Rotterdam to capture the Willemsbrug. There are several photos taken of them on the water, but all are too poor a quality to see the identification codes for the aircraft.
Is anyone know, or is able to identify the aircraft involved?
Thanks

 

Heinkel He-59s according to Amerfoort and Kamphuis (the ridiculously expensive book mentioned above!). A dozen were used and they landed around 120 men.

The use of He 59s is confirmed in Heinz Golla's "The German Fallschirmtruppe 1936-41", but he states that 15 planes were used.

 

Yes. In the restricted waters 2 collided and sank, however the other 10 left safely. The photos taken by civilians are quite daunting, normal people just photographing strange planes on the city's river, not realising this was the first action of the war.

 

My apologies - I need to read things more thoroughly! You need the actual codes of individual planes. Neither of the books I reference above have any information on this. The latter states "a squadron of 15 twin-engined HE 59 hydroplanes was formed from KGr z.b.V.108 employed in Norway". Don't know if that is any help?

 

Here's the loss records on the two He 59D's
Incident Heinkel He 59D 2593, 10 May 1940
Incident Heinkel He 59D 2599, 10 May 1940

Here's a very detailed thread on a Dutch aviation forum trying to figure out the same thing you are:
Google Translate

(with google translate it's eager to figure out)

The challenge is the aircraft used were obsolete and expendable and part of an adhoc unit created for this specific operation. So finding exact unit markings is a challenge as the Dutch thread shows.

But hopefully this gives you more information to work with.

EDIT: including this just for fun: Capture of the Willemsbrug, Holland 1940

 

Hi Stolpi,

very well done, excellent and lots of new information to me.
Honestly , I had little knowledge of the invasion and the fighting of the Dutch defenders, as well as the invading German troops and their intentions to capture the queen which luckily failed.

Stefan.
NB: I think I will book lessons with you how you produced these videos.