Weren't what they took from Poland once theirs?

Discussion in 'Poland' started by jameslee, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. jameslee

    jameslee Junior Member

    I know what I have to say can be a very contentious issue. We all know that WW2 started when Hitler's Germany send troops over to Poland and conquered them. Let there be no doubt. The Nazis were brutal and barbaric. They were also relentlessly cruel.

    However, if you were to read history, you will remember that when WW1 ended, the entire Germany fell into the control of the League of Nations. The League of Nations under France, also imposed the unethical Treaty of Versailles on Germany and made them paid.

    More interestingly, to prevent Germany from rising again, they had decided to divide up Prussia. Poland, being a neighbouring country, took away much of what was orginally Prussia. And they didn't do it immediately. That is, they didn't divide up Prussia immediately afrer WW1, but only in 1926.

    So, when Hitler's Nazi troops ventured into Poland and conquered the land, they were actually taking back much of what was once Prussia.

    So, in actual fact, were they all that wrong when they went into Poland to redeem what was once theirs but were taken away forcefully?

    Let there be no doubt. Nazism was not good. They had also been rather cruel in what they did. The Holocast was a terrible event. They deserved what they subsequently got from the allies. Nevertheless, technically speaking, weren't what they took from Poland once theirs but were forcefully taken away from them?
     
  2. simonwoodhall

    simonwoodhall Junior Member

    ...but Prussia, Russia and the Hapsburgs had partitioned Poland in 1795. Poland had then ceased to exist until after 1918.
     
  3. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Senior Member

    The historical borders of Poland vary so much from historical period to period that it's really impossible to say anything definite about them. The area has some major North South rivers, and the Carpathians to the south, but is otherwise without "natural borders". Versailles did leave a number of areas mostly populated by German speakers on the wrong side of the borders IMO a greater source of "future troubles" than borders from past generations.
    Had the sort of ethnic cleansing that took place after WW2 happened after WW1 Hitler would have had fewer excuses for his aggression but it would have utterly broken any impression of a "just peace", while the illusion of "war to end all wars" was key to the League of Nations concept.
    Possibly the desire to put a bulkwark to the expansion of communism had a strong influence on Pilsudsky's Poland getting more than it should have if the "self detrmination" principle had been applied evenly.
     
  4. Groundhugger

    Groundhugger Senior Member

    Interesting , the History no ones tells at School ,
    also a point I noted , Russia invaded Poland after the Germans and in 'cahoots' to carve up Poland , so Technically should'nt the British have declared war on the Russian's as well ,
     
  5. wowtank

    wowtank Very Senior Member

    Interesting , the History no ones tells at School ,
    also a point I noted , Russia invaded Poland after the Germans and in 'cahoots' to carve up Poland , so Technically should'nt the British have declared war on the Russian's as well ,

    Well there was some talk of troops being sent to help the Finns I believe.
     
  6. wowtank

    wowtank Very Senior Member

    I know what I have to say can be a very contentious issue. We all know that WW2 started when Hitler's Germany send troops over to Poland and conquered them. Let there be no doubt. The Nazis were brutal and barbaric. They were also relentlessly cruel.

    However, if you were to read history, you will remember that when WW1 ended, the entire Germany fell into the control of the League of Nations. The League of Nations under France, also imposed the unethical Treaty of Versailles on Germany and made them paid.

    More interestingly, to prevent Germany from rising again, they had decided to divide up Prussia. Poland, being a neighbouring country, took away much of what was orginally Prussia. And they didn't do it immediately. That is, they didn't divide up Prussia immediately afrer WW1, but only in 1926.

    So, when Hitler's Nazi troops ventured into Poland and conquered the land, they were actually taking back much of what was once Prussia.

    So, in actual fact, were they all that wrong when they went into Poland to redeem what was once theirs but were taken away forcefully?

    Let there be no doubt. Nazism was not good. They had also been rather cruel in what they did. The Holocast was a terrible event. They deserved what they subsequently got from the allies. Nevertheless, technically speaking, weren't what they took from Poland once theirs but were forcefully taken away from them?


    But how do you explained Czechoslovakia? It is irrelevant who had right to what Hitler had to invade ideologically and economically . And I don't think the Germans were that innocent after ww1 so can't really complain what got taken from them now can they.
     
  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    jameslee
    one post: 28-01-2012, 03:02 AM
    Last Activity: 28-01-2012 03:03 AM
     
  8. L J

    L J Senior Member

    Interesting , the History no ones tells at School ,
    also a point I noted , Russia invaded Poland after the Germans and in 'cahoots' to carve up Poland , so Technically should'nt the British have declared war on the Russian's as well ,
    NO
    1)Poland did not declare war on the SU,thus,why should Britain ?
    2) The march 1939 guarantee explicitly was directed against Germany
    3) In march,no one was thinking that the SU would attack Poland (and,a few days after the guarantee,it was obvious that the alarming messages about an imminent German attack,were wrong)
     
  9. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    jameslee
    one post: 28-01-2012, 03:02 AM
    Last Activity: 28-01-2012 03:03 AM

    Not that I am against raising zombie threads, but the above shows how much interested the original poster was...
     
  10. wowtank

    wowtank Very Senior Member

    LOL did not look properly at the date. Have we been trolled? hehe
     
  11. xjrtaz

    xjrtaz Junior Member

    would just like to say Jameslee,
    your original post, what a stupid statement, you need to go back to the 9th Century to see what polands borders were and how they changed over history, way before the Prussians decided that northern Poland belonged to them..
    one of the reasons a combined Polish / Lithuanian force wiped them out at Grunwald (Tannenberg to the Niemcy!).
    As I am new to this forum i have only just seen this post so I just had to comment!
     
  12. Earthican

    Earthican Senior Member

    Also to Jameslee,
    Shows that all the efforts Chamberlain made at Munich to prove that Britain and France were working very hard to keep the peace and that if war came it was Hitler's choice. No more claims after the Sudetenland. All that effort seems to get lost to later generations but surely the people of France and Britain understood that it was indeed Hitler that wanted war.
     
  13. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Xjrtaz,

    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    The original poster asked a question and then failed to return.

    Like you say anyone who is well read on European history will know of the many boundary changes over the last few hundred years.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  14. Stephen

    Stephen Member

    The Germans complained about Versailles being unfair but if the boot had been on the other foot they would probably have imposed a harsher treaty on the allies. This can be seen from the treaties they imposed on Russia and Rumania.

    The border between Poland and Germany was based on a German census from which year I forget. When Hitler was demanding a plebisite in the Polish corridor he seems to have been unaware that the majority of the population was Polish. Danzig was overwhelmingly German. In some areas such as Silesia the population was very mixed and this resulted in fighting before a border was agreed. Germany had been trying to Germanise the territory it aquired after the partitions of Poland and an independent Poland reversed what had happened. A large number of Germans left Poland between the wars.

    Germany did have a genuine grievance over Danzig and the British government was hoping the Poles would make consessions. Lloyd George predicted in 1919 that Danzig would lead to war and Chamberlain said years before 1939 he expected a strong Germany to demand the return of Danzig. Hitler made quite a reasonabl offer to the Poles over the issue. If Poland had accepted it would probably have been in a similar situation to the German satelite countries of Hungary and Rumania.
     

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