William Nichol 4265053 Royal Northumberland Fusiliers

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by David Hardy, Jun 10, 2024.

  1. David Hardy

    David Hardy Member

    Hi,

    I'm trying to find some information for my elderley neighbour about her dad, William Nichol, who was killed 24th May 1940. I've found the usual information about his service record but I was trying to establish what might have happened/where he was. He's buried in Kemmel Chateau Military Cemetery with a bunch of RA guys, a few who died on the same day as him. He seems to be the only person from his battalion who died on 24th May and I can't figure out if he was with the RA based on Kemmel Hill (1 Heavy Regiment RA - The Royal Artillery 1939-45) - I saw somewhere that the 2nd battalion was unassigned and labouring around that time but I could be wrong.

    Any information or guidance would be greatly appreciated
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  3. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Wiki has a very slim history for 2nd Bn. RNF:
    From: List of Royal Northumberland Fusiliers battalions in World War II - Wikipedia

    Thanks to this old thread I have an idea, standby. It may provide some context for those days in May 1940 as the BEF retreated, mainly to Dunkirk and 2 RNF were there: BEF rearguard action at De Moeren/Bulskamp (May 29th till May 31st 1940)

    Also see: 4265808 PSM John James McCANCE, 2 Royal Northumberland Fusiliers: 29/05/1940 - 02/06/1940

    There are just a very few threads on 2 RNF for their time in France 1940, certainly no mention of a war diary, though one will exist (they rarely mention an individual soldier).

    2 RNF appear in this divisional history for May 1940, specifically in Post 4, when part of the 50th (Northumberland) Division. See: 50 (Northumbrian) Division

    From a 2010 post:
    Have a map of the region to hand, preferably minus modern roads i.e. from WW2.

    Others may be along to help.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
    David Hardy likes this.
  4. David Hardy

    David Hardy Member

    Thanks both for the information so far.

    From research I've carried out, it seems that 24th May is an inconsequental day in the grand scheme of things (although not for Bill as he was known). I guess his death date of 24th May could be after he was wounded for some days and then finally died but it'd be impossible to know. Considering as the 4th Division sustained heavy losses in the retreat to Dunkirk, I can't imagine there was much time for admin.

    If there are any pictures from the 2 R.N.F floating around from the battle of France, it'd be great to see them.
     
  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    David,

    I don't recall photos on the relevant threads here; caveat: I was not looking then for photos.

    An online search found a few photos of 2 RNF ostensibly in France, but very few found for 1940. It might be worth contacting their regimental museum. See: https://www.northumberlandfusiliers.org.uk/

    There are no photos in the site's gallery.

    To understand the role of a MG battalion this dedicated website can help and it also has a short history of 2 RNF in 1940:
    See: Northumberland Fusiliers, Royal Northumberland Fusiliers
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
  6. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Cemetery located in Google Maps

    South of Poperinge a main junction on the route to Dunkirk.
     
  7. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    WW1 battlefield
    Little seems to be online regarding WW2. Possible that WW2 burials were brought in from surrounding areas.
    This might explain the random units that they belonged to.
    Will Check with ra 1939-45 to see if Derek has more info as he has listed it.

    Interesting aside to Kemmel: The History Files: Kemmelberg (Remarkable Stories: Hitler and the Kemmelberg)

    Could you post the Service Record sheet B103 (Casualty and Service) of Fusilier Nichol it just might offer clues.

    12th Armoured Brigade Combat Team (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
  8. David Hardy

    David Hardy Member

    Thanks Uncle, I'd had a similar thought it the cemetery being used to bury people from the local area. I guess having a body from a frontline outfit is lucky as there must be a lot of people who were left behind due to the retreat. What's a B103? I've got this information, if this is what you mean:
    Initials
    W
    Full Name
    NICHOL, WILLIAM
    Date Of Birth
    1908
    Age
    32
    Birth Place
    Gateshead.
    Nationality
    British
    Resided Place
    Gateshead.
    Date Of Death
    24 May 1940
    Information
    Parents: William and Elizabeth Nichol; husband of Violet Nichol, of York.
    Rank Name
    Fusilier
    Service Number
    4265053
    Died in Active Service
    Yes
    Service
    British Army
    Regiment
    Royal Northumberland Fusiliers
    Battalion
    2nd Battalion
    Archive Reference
    WO 304/8
    Place Of Death
    France and Belgium Campaign, 1939/40
    Conflict Period
    World War II
    Served For
    United Kingdom

    Not dug into a military past before, so this is all new, apologies if these are basic questions
     
  9. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    A Service Record is made up with many various forms Army Form B103 is the one we need to see what he did where and when. Training, time off sick pow or in detention.
    Sample attached below.

    Without this we are all stumped.

    Army Form B103   2.jpg

    All entries are coded but some of us have learned to understand them from experience on the forum.

    If you have a form like this we can help to trace his movements etc.
     
  10. David Hardy

    David Hardy Member

    Ok, great, I have mentioned to her about applying for the service record, so we'll see where that leads to. Appreciate your help
     
  11. Gareth Smith

    Gareth Smith Well-Known Member

  12. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    David, it seems that you might be in luck with the Service Record as its 116 years from his date of birth.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
  13. David Hardy

    David Hardy Member

    Wow, that is some good luck, only been open for 4 months. Now to figure out the process for ordering without spending £££ and receiving the wrong thing. Thanks again
     
  14. Gareth Smith

    Gareth Smith Well-Known Member

    Normal copying process starts with the page check which costs £8.40 (you can start the process by clicking on request a copy on the linked page above), you pay this whether you decide to go ahead with ordering the final copy or not, and normally I think takes about 2 weeks. Then depending on exactly what you ask for (I normally ask for colour digital scans of all information in the file relating to whoever the person is) they will come back to you with a price. Normal colour scans up to A3 is £1.20 per side. Depending on what the price is, you can either convert your page check to a full order if you want to go ahead (and you then pay the quoted price) or you can leave it there. If you do convert to an order it takes usually another 2ish weeks.

    They can do digital scans or you can have them printed and posted out to you.

    TNA Price List: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MQFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2ygnPUfi9-pyp-gNcAcm_S

    Record Copying Video:
     
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  15. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

  16. Gareth Smith

    Gareth Smith Well-Known Member

    Uncle Target,

    Under normal circumstances you would be correct to apply to MoD in the first instance, however in this case the service record for William Nichol has already been transferred to TNA so the above procedure applies.
     
  17. David Hardy

    David Hardy Member

    I've applied for his service record using the link above, so we'll see what turns up and I can post any useful information on here.
     
    Gareth Smith likes this.

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