WW2 resulted in a Cold War

Discussion in 'The Eastern Front' started by T-34, Apr 22, 2006.

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  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Rather than do what our American friends are doing and be out right anti-Communist I to am wondering why the Russian people put up with so much through their history?
    To me living in in the West it seems the Russian people have constant suffering under the Tsars then the Soviet era.
    T34 could you also share any experiences of The Great Patriotic War that your family may have?
    We need a wider member base and hope you aren't put off by the anti-commie Yanks over there.
    We aren't going to be able to change your views but I would like to know why you still have them.
     
  2. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    1) russia by no means a place of constant suffering, there's no nation that put up with it, so i dont know why the west feels so comfortable to perseive russia that way.
    2) my grandfather was an officer of red army. during ww2 he fought against japanese.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    T34 can you start a thread telling us about your Grandfather?
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    It could throw some people into a massive tail-spin looking at a part of the war involving 2 countries that have been enemies of the US that I suspect most of us know nearly nothing about. I Understand that Russia moved towards Japan (having been beaten by her in previous conflicts) but as to the details I know next to sod all.
     
  5. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    Do you think most people in the old USSR are missing the Soviet system? Is this a majority view? a growing one? Putin seems to be a major autocrat as portrayed over here. Are people really Missing the SU or is it more that the current regime is Pi**ing them off? It's said that opposition's don't win elections, governments lose them. Putin is portrayed in documentaries over here as something of a new Tsar figure, drawing as much power as possible to his person?
    first of all, we, russians had never expected such a wave of humiliation the west would pour on us as SU collapsed, no wonder why we miss the might of USSR nowadays.
    as for elections/democracy stuff, it's none of our traditions,
    for the truth is - russian people are never happy with any sort of authority, and complain all the time about all the things, 'cause deep in the heart they're kind of anarchists, i think.
    that's why russia needs a Tzar and stern authority system.
     
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    That anarchist streak seems to shine out in any Russian related stuff i've read (Hand in hand with the Vodka maybe? Knew a Russian Girl a while back, Christ! the Vodka!)
    So maybe not Communism that's missed?
    More the strong hand and the perception of the 'benign dictatorship'.?
    a favourite (but idealistic) form of Govt. for me.
     
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    first of all, we, russians had never expected such a wave of humiliation the west would pour on us as SU collapsed, no wonder why we miss the might of USSR nowadays.
    .

    Dunno about humiliation. I was relieved. I was BLOODY SCARED of the USSR.
    I'm so glad we never went to war with eachother. I would be dead.

    We're never going to agree on all things.
    Let's accept we are different.

    Now..............your Grandad.tell us more. PLEASE:)
     
  8. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    T34 can you start a thread telling us about your Grandfather?
    unfortunately, there's not much to tell, because he was just like me an ordinary person, and in fact, russian/japanese front was a routine that didnt offer so much in terms of adventures.
    but he told me that the japanese army was a decent one, and that japanese soldiers were brave.
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    unfortunately, there's not much to tell, because he was just like me an ordinary person, and in fact, russian/japanese front was a routine that didnt offer so much in terms of adventures.

    Exactly. Ordinary people like You and Me.
     
  10. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    well, of course he was better person than i am, but....
    all people in those times were better than they're nowadays.
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    well, of course he was better person than i am, but....
    all people in those times were better than they're nowadays.
    T34 you've just made my day!
    That illustrates beautifully that when nobodys flying over with the 'blind dogma bombs' then someone from a different perspective can still say the same sort of thing everyone else on this board has come up with at some time or another.
    Good stuff!
     
  12. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    Glad to see calm has returned to the Russian thread once more.
    T34, have i got this right, many Russians would be happier with a single person in charge of them, and not a government? So Tzarist Russia (taking away the total cock-ups it made in the end) would be more acceptable than a democratic system. Why?
    I personally would rather see the Crown and House of Lords back in charge in this country, as the House of Commons has totally messed up. Is it the same in Russia?
    Kitty.
    PS. Jimbo, you and i need to have a serious discussion about TB in the politics thread. Well, I'll be talking and you'll be listening.
     
  13. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    ... have i got this right, many Russians would be happier with a single person in charge of them, and not a government? So Tzarist Russia would be more acceptable than a democratic system.
    honestly, it doesnt matter much - tzar or democracy (corporocracy), since the authorities and politicians out here are either admired or hated, but never respected.
    russia exists accordingly to some sort of unidentified sublime idea, not for the sake of prosperity, welfare or even the common sense. i think, its because russia is not quite what we call a country, more likely its just a part of the world, geo-political continent, bonded only by the language factor. that means: permanent instability is a normal state in russia's case. thus, any attempts at any kind of improvements may only cause a serious damage. however, whatever crisis or disaster happens, russia proved its ability to survive in hopeless situations.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    since the authorities and politicians out here are either admired or hated, but never respected.
    :lol: Pretty much the same over here at the moment.
     
  15. Herroberst

    Herroberst Senior Member

    The problem with any government is that it somewhere along the line stops serving the people and starts serving itself. The fewer leaders the better if those leaders were honest, strong, accountable men. However since absolute power corrupts absolutely then there must exist a checks and balances system.

    I have said before that I have nothing against the Russian people. The Soviet government prevented alot of crime, pollution(except Chernobyl)(Baku oilfields)(military bases)...well maybe that's not the best example but I was told that the city squares were spotless under the Soviet Regime. Communists, specifically the Hollywood types in the US are a huge problem. We would be very happy if they left...wow a pun.

    T-34 I like to liven up things on occasion but from my posts with you, You can see that I'm interested in your observations of Russia. Had a chance to go in the 80s but didn't. Anywho...It is interesting to hear your viewpoint, I admit it was kind of sad seeing all those Soviet navy ships mothballed and some sold off to China, India, and Vietnam. I think one of the carriers was made into a museum. From my studies of Russian history. I have to agree with you about the Russian people to a point. I think the Russian people are deeply religious and even the Soviets realized that they weren't going to wipe out Christianity and the Orthodox Church. The same was true in Poland, except they were Catholics.
     
  16. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    1) russia by no means a place of constant suffering, there's no nation that put up with it, so i dont know why the west feels so comfortable to perseive russia that way.

    So if I take that statement serious, you would also be saying that the people in the concentration camps liked their lifestyle as evidenced by the fact they "put up" with it? Don't get your line of reasoning here.

    I do believe the soviet people are resigned to an enslaved mentality. That comes with centuries of hopelessness and dispair which resigns you to accept horrible situations. You can't immediately reverse such indoctrination of dispair engrained for decades. But putting them back under communism is not the answer as it only sustains this lifeless existance and maintains the status quo of continuing the indoctrination that their quality of living deserves to be no more than to be like that of beasts living in a field.

    You can't rationalize sorrow by saying they have been trained to suffer and becaused they have learned to live with it they enjoy it.

    Arm them all and then see if they are happy. When you possess the arms, of-friggen-course they are happy. Dare they say otherwise?
     
  17. Kitty

    Kitty Very Senior Member

    This computer is playing me up again...
    So if Russia, which let us say is more of a geo-political alliance than a country as such, was goverened/ruled by a single individual, then it would be easier for the Russian people to accept as they could look up to that one person, and not at a government which merely ties itself into knots and only serves it's own ends (sounds like ours).
    However, as Russia is such a large 'country' it has many different people and races within it's boundaries, all of them with different beliefs and ideas, making it almost impossible to be goverened. So Russia as a country needs a strong ruler at it's head.
    Instability is a factor of life in Russia, and so it needs a strong but flexible leader, not a set-in-it's-ways government. Hmm. Food for thought there.

    honestly, it doesnt matter much - tzar or democracy (corporocracy), since the authorities and politicians out here are either admired or hated, but never respected.
    russia exists accordingly to some sort of unidentified sublime idea, not for the sake of prosperity, welfare or even the common sense. i think, its because russia is not quite what we call a country, more likely its just a part of the world, geo-political continent, bonded only by the language factor. that means: permanent instability is a normal state in russia's case. thus, any attempts at any kind of improvements may only cause a serious damage. however, whatever crisis or disaster happens, russia proved its ability to survive in hopeless situations.
     
  18. T-34

    T-34 Discharged - Nazi

    ... you would also be saying that the people in the concentration camps liked their lifestyle as evidenced by the fact they "put up" with it? I do believe the soviet people are resigned to an enslaved mentality. That comes with centuries of hopelessness and dispair which resigns you to accept horrible situations. You can't immediately reverse such indoctrination of dispair engrained for decades. But putting them back under communism is not the answer as it only sustains this lifeless existance and maintains the status quo of continuing the indoctrination that their quality of living deserves to be no more than to be like that of beasts living in a field.
    concentration camps are extinct since very long time.
    and would you please live me alone, and let me stay the way i am - i.e. a slave by mentality, a "beast living in a field", dispaired commie etc.
    why meddle? mind your own business.
    these days we, russians want just to stay away from the world's problems and spend the rest of the century in a comfort and memories of past glory.
    all we want is that nobody ever attempted to strip us of our victories and achievements.
     
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    where any kind of jingoism or blatant rhetoric would be welcomed.

    T34 just reminding you of what you asked for.:)
    You've got 10 pages of it so far.
    Why don't you join in some other threads, not just this one?
    What else have you to add?
     
  20. jimbotosome

    jimbotosome Discharged

    concentration camps are extinct since very long time.
    and would you please live me alone, and let me stay the way i am - i.e. a slave by mentality, a "beast living in a field", dispaired commie etc.
    why meddle? mind your own business.
    these days we, russians want just to stay away from the world's problems and spend the rest of the century in a comfort and memories of past glory.
    all we want is that nobody ever attempted to strip us of our victories and achievements.
    What are you talking about? I am not talking about you. I am talking about Russian history. If you are talking about Russia and its achievements, you have to be very specific. The past of Russia is highly dubious in my opinion. I don't care if you agree with that or not. But if you spin, don't complain if I stop the spin.

    Is this thread about you or Russia? You are the one claiming that the Communists saved the Russian people. That is not the opinion of the Russian people I know. It might be yours as a communist, but it ain't theirs. Saddam Hussein believed he was a liberator and a great leader of the Iraqi people. Guess what? His opinion is not shared by most. There is an old saying that a man's testamony of himself is not valid.
     

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