14,000 Dog-tag return mission: Recce help esp welcome

why would some 1950's and 1960's issued numbers be on discs be for the invasion of Japan in 1945???

they aren't... As I said, these can be split into two groups of dog-tags. Those WW2 intended for invasion of mainland Japan, those post WW2 dog-tags which have nothing to do with the Japan Invasion. All of these tags have one thing in common. RAC.

 

In my opinion they should be in the IWM as an exhibit, with the full story attached.[/QUOTE]

Apologies for not getting your humour, I wasn't look for humour in amongst the negative comments about me being an illegal black digger who is only out to self publicise and ruin history for all time.

IWM not interested in displaying any, they don't display the dog-tags that they have. We had an interesting meeting with them when we were tracking down the story which isn't true and I completely made up, in your groups opinion.

 

"then it's probably a VERY significant" yes we know. We aren't new to military history, we aren't new to relic hunting or returning items to families. When we first found these dog-tags we assumed that every dog-tag was post WW2, never in a million years did we expect to be where we are now. They say people don't like change, remember when the world was flat... and all metal dog-tags were post WW2.... I know, we are changing what we know about the history of British dog-tags and I sincerely apologising for messing up what we all thought we knew.

 

What even all the soldiers that were demobbed in 1945/6 after the war ended? Why would they then go and make dog-tags for them in the 1950's!

 

OK, enough is enough of this "what are these dog-tags". This is utterly pointless for all of us. I don't care if you think I planted them, made them because I was bored, am trying to rewrite the history of dog-tags. All I wanted to do is to know more about the soldiers I have details for and contact their families. What these are, where they came from, what we know and have learnt is no longer up for discussion. Feel free to keep throwing your suggestions out into the open. We have already been through them all, we were in your boat around 4 years when we first found them. Since then we have learnt so much about these, but you don't seem to want to know what we know, you just like telling me I'm wrong. Sure I'm wrong, these are all 1960's dog-tags all made by mistake, all 20,000+ of them, the bulk of which are WW2 soldiers. Because that makes much more sense. Or maybe they invented a time machine in 1960, went back in time just to issued metal dog-tags, but realised that everyone would learn about the existence of time travel and destroyed the machine and buried the dog-tags to erase all evidence. After all, the IWM guys and archivists at Bovington can't be correct either can they. The funding the BBC paid for was all just wasted and results were invented. Guys like CRS1418 clearly know much more than all those guys with there huge collections of files, data cards and records. I'm not here to convince you, I no longer care what you believe and if you don't want to learn what we have learnt then fine, I can't force you.

 

Read my previous messages where I theorise (just like you have done) for the reasons behind this

 

(To repeat) 'Read my previous messages where I theorise (just like you have done) for the reasons behind this'

...but in this case I'll reiterate further... 'demobbed' for many didn't just mean 'there you go, job done, now toddle off into the happily ever after'... there was a reserve commitment for many (look at the 'Z -Men' of Korea for example)... That's why there would be tags for them in the 1950's!

 

So, thousands upon thousands of items intended for issue managed to be manufactured without actually receiving official approval and any mention in AO's, CR's, ACI's, Pattern Approvals, GRO's or other regulation?...and in the British Army? ... and all you have is a report 'recommendation' (records are absolutely full of these!) from someone that doesn't actually even describe the style/design of the tag, just the suggested material? Hard evidence? Not really! (And it would certainly appear that you have fallen into the common trap of researching the person detailed (an admirable project in its own right, but totally useless for researching a pattern change in an object!) rather than properly researching the background and history of the actual item(s) itself, thereby making 2+2 equal 5!)

Believe me, I would dearly love for your 'theory' to be proven correct and for the evolution of British tags to have just found it's version of the 'missing link'. However, from where I'm standing, it's simply that ... just a theory and no more (actually, at the moment, far less) watertight than my own.

(and where was it ever mentioned that all metal dog tags were all post WW2? OK, they were pre (and early) WW1 and , unit/theatre specific, post 1942... but they were of a totally different pattern to those introduced post war (the post war ones which happen to uncannily resemble (exactly?) the patterns that you have found).

Well...unfortunately, no you're not actually. You're simply putting forth a totally unsubstantiated (and totally incorrect) theory that has more holes in it than a sieve!

No need to apologise... I know what I know (which can all be backed up with documentary fact), and I know that there would be official documentation regarding a pattern change or adoption and that , like every other adoption/change/alteration, it should be easy enough to find... ...if it exists! Even the (several versions of) 'plastic' prototypes that were never adopted or issued through the 1950's to the 1980's are documented well enough in 'official' records such as in approval and trial permissions documents!

Dave

 

I've had correspondence with these people regarding discs over the years and, yes, you are correct this time... seeing as, on occasion, they have actually contacted me for information, I think that I actually do know more than them on the subject of identity discs!

 

You really don't read postings correctly, nor the intention behind them do you? (Can't see where anyone has accused you of faking, planting or whatever). Even the 'erroneous theory' was quashed a while back! (Though I do like your time machine theory... that one quite amused me... considering your other fairy tale regarding them being 'Invasion of Japan' discs, I presume that you actually did consider that at some point? )

...and , Wow!...you are certainly worthy of congratulation! ... Those seven posts where you just seem to get angrier and angrier and more and more paranoid as they go on without anyone actually interjecting and posting anything in between are amazing! Never seen anything like that ... the tone and subject of them, however, actually speaks volumes! (As does your dummy-spitting rant on your website which also goes a long way into illustrating the fact that really haven't understood most of the posts on this thread) ... feel better now? Got it off your chest? Oh good - now try backing up your claims with some good documentary and official evidence (which does exist, by the way, but it might upset you again when/if you see which from year(s) it originates) ... and don't worry too much about what other people think (because it is quite obvious that you do!) if you know (and - the crucial bit - can back up) the truth....(Oh, by the way, just for your info, I have been aware of your find for a 'teeny bit' more than the 'few months' that you quote and have spent about 30 years studying discs in general, so haven't just walked blindly into this!)

Ah well, never mind, eh? - As you say...'I'm not here to convince you, I no longer care what you believe and if you don't want to learn what we have learnt then fine'... ... well, I'm afraid that's totally mutual.

 

I have kept an eye on this post out of curiosity. I see that a family history Facebook page has a post from a friend of Dan Mackay offered g look ups for names.
Those interested are directed to a website www.WW11Files.com.

 

Report done in April 1944 concerning item improvement recommendations for the invasion of Japan says -

71. Identity Discs. The Graves Registration Service has confirmed that fibre discs in this climate lose their markings, particularly after preliminary internment. It is therefore recommended that a more durable pattern be adopted. AUSTRALIA and U.S.A. have both gone for a stainless metal, which is considered suitable. Aluminium, while otherwise admirable, is understood to corrode in salt water. Care should be taken to ensure that the edges of the disc are not sharp enough to be a cause of irritation. If medal is adopted, stamping machines of engraving pencils may be required. Five electric pencils per division was found a satisfactory scale.

72. Identity Disc Cords. String quickly becomes foul and rots. A bootlace is used in preference, but is not satisfactory, as it soaks up moisture and gives rise to sweat-rash. Some metal chains cause irritation. The American nylon cord is recommended, provided it is not too quickly affected by Mosquito Repellent, and can be flame-proofed. Otherwise we recommend non-irritant metal chains.

 

There is an error with this link: the ones should be "ii" like this: WWII Files

This site does not appear to have been updated it the last 2 years.

 

Thanks Steve, I was wondering why it didn't work.

 

Just to add that despite Dan's apology and promise of a cheque I never received any reply to my PM - not a great surprise

 

Didn't he leave this group? It might be an idea to contact him through his website. You have nothing to loose by trying.

 

As an every growing effort to raise funds for the project. I have hunted out a few of the tags from duplicate sets and odd tags worth selling. Some sets were accidentally created 3 times, giving us 9 tags to one soldier. We never return all the tags from a set, that way we can generate funds for the project while keep some tags back to return to the families if we can trace them! I will list these on EBay at various prices depending on what they are and how interesting they may be. For any fans of the project, this is a chance to get some of these tags!

For full details of the project, visit www.extremerelichunters.com/fadt & join our facebook group, just search for 'the forgotten army dogtag project'

One of very many auction listings:
WW2 relic dogtag RAC RTR - Essex Regiment RICHARDS 6030042 | eBay