2nd Bn Royal Sussex, later 10th Bn Parachute Regt

I met his daughter acouple of years ago in Oosterbeek, will check if I can find out some more, she was also doing research about her Dad

 

Update -
CWGC have recognised the anomaly between Pdr McGowan's field burial list map ref 789689 & the CWGC map ref used for my father's FB.
Pdr McGowans location was correct & the place listed by CWGC for my father was the grave of a Sgt Briggs of GPR.

That said the grave locations were not much more than 100m apart

 

Mike

Glad that McGowan's list proved to be of some use - well done for your perseverance.

John

 

Attached is a picture of 2 RSR HQ Wg Athletics team 1935 taken at Napier Barracks Karachi. A few of them went on to serve with 10 Parachute Battalion.

Rear Rank; Pte Upperton, Dmr Stannard, Pte Miller, Pte Winters F, Pte Goodsell, Dmr Powell, Pte Cockerall, Sig Holloway, Dmr Allen, Pte Smith, Sig Hill.
Centre Rank; Dmr Strong, Pte Stace, Boy Lidbetter, Bdm Wells, Pte Lea, L/Cpl Knowles, Pte Young, L/Cpl Butters, Sig Neale, Dmr Pattenden, Sig Jordon, Bdm Simpson.
Front Rank; Pte Horley, Pte Hyde, Cpl Hann, CSM Angell, Lt Odling Smee, CQMS Isted, L/Sgt Hunt F, Dmr Steele, Bdm Page.

Pte Upperton later served in 10th Parachute Battalion and later 2nd Parachute Battalion.

 

Attached is a picture of 2 RSR HQ Wg Athletics team 1935 taken at Napier Barracks Karachi. A few of them went on to serve with 10 Parachute Battalion.

Rear Rank; Pte Upperton, Dmr Stannard, Pte Miller, Pte Winters F, Pte Goodsell, Dmr Powell, Pte Cockerall, Sig Holloway, Dmr Allen, Pte Smith, Sig Hill.
Centre Rank; Dmr Strong, Pte Stace, Boy Lidbetter, Bdm Wells, Pte Lea, L/Cpl Knowles, Pte Young, L/Cpl Butters, Sig Neale, Dmr Pattenden, Sig Jordon, Bdm Simpson.
Front Rank; Pte Horley, Pte Hyde, Cpl Hann, CSM Angell, Lt Odling Smee, CQMS Isted, L/Sgt Hunt F, Dmr Steele, Bdm Page.

Pte Upperton later served in 10th Parachute Battalion and later 2nd Parachute Battalion.

L.Sgt Frederick Leonard Hunt (third from the right in the front row) was KIA 19/9/44 at Arnhem whilst with HQ Coy, 10 Para............

 

Halloooo! This is very weird! As I've put up elsewhere, my father was John Horley, Coastal Forces, KIA 24.4.44. His brother was Peter Harry Horley, who was captured during Arnhem and came from Southsea, Hants originally. I thought he was with the 10th Battalion but can't find his record among some family papers. I see there's a Pte. Horley in the front row of this photo, but that sure as heck isn't Peter Horley. Horley isn't that common a spelling (more often Hawley) and the thought that there'd be two in the same battalion would be very strange.

I knew Peter very well as he married my mother after John's death, becoming my uncle and stepfather at the same time!

Is there any chance I could possibly beg either of you erudite gentlemen to see if you can find out which battalion Pte. PETER HARRY HORLEY was with, please? I don't know which day of the infamously inept 'drop' he went down on, but he ended up captured and POW. Not the first day, I'm fairly sure.

Any help on this would be hugely appreciated!

 

L.Sgt Frederick Leonard Hunt (third from the right in the front row) was KIA 19/9/44 at Arnhem whilst with HQ Coy, 10 Para............

Hi Paul,
That is exactly what i thought, however on the Oosterbeek headstone it says his age was 25, the photo was taken in 1935 and he is listed as a Lance Sgt then! Also his service number was 6390971 whilst in 2 RSR but on the headstone it says his number is
4538680. Another anomoly is Pte F Winters rear rank, he also has a double buried in Oosterbeek however it is listed his age was 22 in 1944 but the pic was taken 9 years earlier!
Regards
Steve

 

Hi Jon,
Pte Horley's initial is W and his service number is 6397455. The Battalion is the Second. It is odd however, when i was at Chichester records office i kept coming across a Sgt Upperton, a fairly unusual name found mainly in the Sussex area. I was researching my grandfather Charles Upperton who was a private at the time! The funny thing is they were both in the Battalion Hockey team, which was confusing initially!
Regards
Steve

 

Hi Steve: aha, that explains it, then! I've never heard of an Upperton, that's a really unusual surname, especially to find two of them, and both in the same team. I'm moving to just outside Chichester in a couple of weeks - leaving the hurly-burly of breezy Brighton behind. Sussex - East or West - has to be my favourite county, after trying a few others! Thanks for the quick response, too.

 

Hi Paul,
That is exactly what i thought, however on the Oosterbeek headstone it says his age was 25, the photo was taken in 1935 and he is listed as a Lance Sgt then! Also his service number was 6390971 whilst in 2 RSR but on the headstone it says his number is
4538680. Another anomoly is Pte F Winters rear rank, he also has a double buried in Oosterbeek however it is listed his age was 22 in 1944 but the pic was taken 9 years earlier!
Regards
Steve

I must admit I did think it was a bit odd that he would still be a L.Sgt at Arnhem. I didn't know what his service number was in the RSR though, so I guess it's not the same fella .
There really needs to be a new book on the 10th as the one by Brammall is woefully lacking in info about Arnhem! .
All the best.............

 

Halloooo! This is very weird! As I've put up elsewhere, my father was John Horley, Coastal Forces, KIA 24.4.44. His brother was Peter Harry Horley, who was captured during Arnhem and came from Southsea, Hants originally. I thought he was with the 10th Battalion but can't find his record among some family papers. I see there's a Pte. Horley in the front row of this photo, but that sure as heck isn't Peter Horley. Horley isn't that common a spelling (more often Hawley) and the thought that there'd be two in the same battalion would be very strange.

I knew Peter very well as he married my mother after John's death, becoming my uncle and stepfather at the same time!

Is there any chance I could possibly beg either of you erudite gentlemen to see if you can find out which battalion Pte. PETER HARRY HORLEY was with, please? I don't know which day of the infamously inept 'drop' he went down on, but he ended up captured and POW. Not the first day, I'm fairly sure.

Any help on this would be hugely appreciated!

Hi Jon,

Can't tell you which unit Peter was with at Arnhem I'm afraid but this listing is in the POW records:

Pte P H Horley AAC 1091195 POW number 89722 @ Stalag 12A (Limburg).

All the best..........

 

Re the confusion with L/Sgt Frederick Leonard Hunt K.I.A. 19/10/44
He was formerly with the West Yorkshire Regiment
As far as his number was concerned - 4538680 would not have been changed, the number is issued on join up & stayed with you.
So L/Sgt Hunt 6390971 of 2 RSR is not the same person.

My interest in this is that L/Sgt Hunt field burial was in a group with my father Sgt L.F.Carter & 3 others on the east side of Valkenburglaan called Graftombe Wood (a section of woodlands between Wolfheze & Oosterbeek)
Go back to post #92 from horsapassenger where he has posted a copy of the field burial list made by the person who officiated & plotted the map ref of the field burials, Rev'd McGowan.

L/Sgt Hunt details are:
Unit 10 Bn
KIA 19th September 1944
Age 25
Oosterbeek CWGC Cemetery 6.D.16

Born Lincolnshire
Son of Walter William and Charlotte Hunt, Custom Ferry,Yorkshire

 

Paul,
I quiete agree we do need a detailed book on the original 10th Parachute Battalion. Graham a regular on this site is writing an account of 10 Para, not sure when it will be published however.
Attached is another pic of 2 RSR again taken at Napier Barracks Karachi in 1933. It is a picture of the Drums Platoon, which i presume is the MMG platoon. My Grandfather Pte Upperton had the MG badge on one of his photos.

Front Rank; Dmr Pearson, Dmr Aslett, L/Cpl Steer, Capt Barton Lt Col Birkett DSO, Sgt Powell, L/Cpl Tester, Dmr Steele.
Second Rank; Pte Strong, Pte Fogarty, Pte Williams, Dmr Pattenden, Boy Simmons, Dmr Stevens, Dmr Freeman, Pte Upperton, Pte Young, Dmr Wooley, Pte Ward.
Third Rank; Pte Allen, Dmr Wyard, Dmr Butters, Dmr Sanders, Dmr Evans, Pte Leuihan, Boy Read, Pte Roe, Pte Stephenson.
Rear Rank; Boy Vigus, Boy Cray, Boy Buck, Boy Butler, Pte Virgo, Boy Seaman, Dmr Knight, Dmr Garvey dmr Neaves.

 

Hi John

With 10Bn being my pet subject...... here's the info that you are after..

Private Peter H Horley, was 26 years old at Arnhem. He was in Support Coy as part of the Mortar platoon. His platoon Sgt was Sgt Tom Bentley (who escaped the perimeter on Op Berlin ) and his Platoon OIC was Lt Roy Dodd (who was KIA on the night of the 19th/20th Sept).

Peter carried out his initial para jumps in the Middle east on jump course K39 (he completed his five jumps from the 12-14th May 1943).

Paul Pariso has already confirmed the correct details re POW.

As you say, i think he was captured sometime during the night of 19th/20th Sept 44 as accounts i have state that there were only 5 members of the Mortar Platoon left on arrival at the Perimeter on the 20th Sept,and that they state that many of the palton were'lost' (Missing and Captured) during the withdrawal across LZ-L and in the woods south of Wolfheze during that evening. I dont have a record of Pte Horley being one of this group of 5 remaining Mortar platoon.

Hope this is of help

 

Just to finalise this discussion. I have personal accounts and eye witness reports concerning Capt Drayson death.

As Airborne Medic alluded, Capt Drayson had his RAP based in the woods south of the Amsterdamseweg some 500m west of the DeLeeren Doedel crossroads and 100m behind the front lines of the 10th.

It was just prior to the annoucement of the withdrawal back across the LZ-L when a salvo of mortars peppered the entire positions where the RAP was located. One of these mortar strikes was a direct hit on the RAP which killed Drayson and injured many others.

For full details you'll just have to wait for the book! (not too far away now!)

Grahame

 

Nice one Grahame,
Do you recognize any of the names from the 'Drums' pic of 2 RSR who may of transfered to 10 Para? Incidentley i have a weeks leave this week, today i have been metal detecting in the 2 woods adjacent to Ashwell camp where the remainder of 10 Para reinforced the 'new' 2 Para after Market Garden. However after a full days detecting i only found 2 .303 rounds! Loads of shell scrapes still in evidence however!

Regards

Steve

 

That is simply terrific, Paul and Grahame - or is it Hercule and Sherlock? I never knew where Peter was POW'd and he claimed to have forgotten the name of the place - like so many dads and grand-dads mentioned on the forum, he was a clam about his experiences, and my mother said that he would brush aside any questions about how bad things might've been. She said he did cry a little when watching The Red Berets years later, but otherwise he was distant about action and camp life, so it would've been very uneasy for me to ask him for any information.

Grahame, I'll be happy to find any photos or info I can, but I suspect there isn't going to be much! However, he didn't hate Army life enough to finish with it when he was demobbed as he went on a lot of Territorial Army jollies until leaving with my mother and me in 1952 for a new life in Africa. He rode a motorcycle at one point in the Army as a courier and this love of bikes continued - he finally gave up these exploits in his early 40s when a neighbour's dog attached itself to his leg, sending him and his beloved bike into a drainage ditch!

Thank you so, so much for your discoveries.

 

The RAP can still be found there today, I have accounts of dutch who helped out there

 

The RAP can still be found there today, I have accounts of dutch who helped out there

Can you post up the Dutch accounts?

 

Hi John

With 10Bn being my pet subject...... here's the info that you are after..

Private Peter H Horley, was 26 years old at Arnhem. He was in Support Coy as part of the Mortar platoon. His platoon Sgt was Sgt Tom Bentley (who escaped the perimeter on Op Berlin ) and his Platoon OIC was Lt Roy Dodd (who was KIA on the night of the 19th/20th Sept).

Peter carried out his initial para jumps in the Middle east on jump course K39 (he completed his five jumps from the 12-14th May 1943).

Paul Pariso has already confirmed the correct details re POW.

As you say, i think he was captured sometime during the night of 19th/20th Sept 44 as accounts i have state that there were only 5 members of the Mortar Platoon left on arrival at the Perimeter on the 20th Sept,and that they state that many of the palton were'lost' (Missing and Captured) during the withdrawal across LZ-L and in the woods south of Wolfheze during that evening. I dont have a record of Pte Horley being one of this group of 5 remaining Mortar platoon.

Hope this is of help

Hi Grahame,

Would that be Thomas "Busty" Bentley MC? The father of a friend of mine knew Bentley in the early 1950's when they were both in 10 Para.

All the best............