I am trying to gain an understanding of the enlistment process for RAFVR (1943), based around the options of (a) National Service call up (b) volunteering. I have just read the following statement, which I am assuming to be accurate: "Men aged 20 to 23 were required to register on 21 October 1939 - the start of a long and drawn-out process of registration by age group, which only saw 40-year-olds registering in June 1941". Firstly, does anyone know what the procedure was "for registering" and secondly, does anyone know where I may find a complete schedule showing the dates of registration for other age groups. Any help would be much appreciated Regards Pete
Hi, H.M.D. Parker, Manpower: A Study of War-Time Policy and Administration (London: HMSO, 1957) has a complete list of the registration scheme in its appendices. Parker's history also includes a detailed account of how registration worked. I think this has been discussed in the group before; try the 'search' function for details. Best, Alan
Thanks for the response; I have taken some information from a previous thread but don't think it covered these questions .... will have another look. I will see if I can get hold of a copy of the book you mention. Thanks again; much appreciated Regards Pete
I have just read the following statement, which I am assuming to be accurate: "Men aged 20 to 23 were required to register on 21 October 1939 - the start of a long and drawn-out process of registration by age group, which only saw 40-year-olds registering in June 1941". Firstly, does anyone know what the procedure was "for registering" and secondly, does anyone know where I may find a complete schedule showing the dates of registration for other age groups. The quoted statement is not wholly accurate. Registration was specifically by date of birth, not by age - the two are not synonymous. One's age increases day by day - one's date of birth is constant. Men were divided into cohorts by date of birth, each cohort being required to register on a specified day. The 21 October 1939 cohort was the largest cohort required to register at one time, birth dates ranging from 1917 to 1919, but the only year wholly included was 1918. In fact, these men would have already registered on 3 June 1939, under the Military Training Act 1939, those not called up under that Act being required to register again under the National Service (Armed Forces) Act 1939. Registration involved attending at an Employment Exchange on the specified day - always a Saturday, the Exchange remaining open for the whole day rather than the then conventional Saturday morning only. Registration involved an interview with a clerk taking personal details - name, date of birth, address, educational standard, employment etc, with a question as to preference for armed force, regiment etc but a warning that there was no guarantee that preferences would be met. Following registration, procedures such as exemption for reserved occupations, conscientious objectors would be dealt with, as well as deferment for men undergoing training or education. Those not filtered out in these ways would be called for medical examination, and those passed fit would receive call-up papers as allocated. That is a very brief outline of a complicated process.
Brilliant feedback; thank you. We are trying to work out (to the best of our ability) whether the flight engineer that we are researching volunteered for RAFVR or was called up in 1943. As he had a new born baby we feel that he must have been called up .... just need to get a copy of the call up dates to see if that gives us a better feel. Thanks again; much appreciated. Regards Pete
If you put up his exact date of birth, I can tell you the exact date when he was due to register, and from that an estimate can be made of when he was likely to be called up. On the general question of entering the armed forces as a volunteer, I am not sure how much of this happened during the war. My understanding is that by the middle of the war manpower was being planned and allocated on a large scale, and I am not sure how well equipped the armed forces were to deal with odd volunteers. Others in WW2Talk may know more about this than I do.
His date of birth was 10 August 1913. His medical was on 24 March 1943 and his ACSB 10 April 1943. Regards Pete
His date of birth was 10 August 1913. His medical was on 24 March 1943 and his ACSB 10 April 1943. Regards Pete OK, since I'm curious and I have a copy of Parker to hand ... 27 April, 1940 registration date. Why wasn't he enlisted for another three years? Could be several reasons. He may have been on the Schedule of Reserved Occupations. He may have requested a deferment through personal hardship. There may have been medical issues. Impossible to tell without more information. Best, Alan
From research to date we know that: He was a Power Switchboard Att. but I haven't checked the age limit for that occupation in the 1938 reserved list yet. He did have a baby in 1941, but that should not have delayed things if he was supposed to be called up April 1940 (personal hardship?) Don't think there were any medical issues; he was passed Grade I (one) at his medical and went onto aircrew Another bit of my research which raises more questions than it answers. Regards Pete
A couple of follow up questions (on a more general note) Firstly, were recruits sent an individual letter advising them to attend their Employment Exchange, or was there a general broadcast saying that anyone with DOB of X to Y had to attend on a particular day Secondly, when they were enlisted, were they "enlisted for the period of the present emergency" or for a set timescale. Thanks again for your interest and feedback in this subject. Regards Pete
A couple of follow up questions (on a more general note) Firstly, were recruits sent an individual letter advising them to attend their Employment Exchange, or was there a general broadcast saying that anyone with DOB of X to Y had to attend on a particular day Secondly, when they were enlisted, were they "enlisted for the period of the present emergency" or for a set timescale. Thanks again for your interest and feedback in this subject. Regards Pete To quote Parker: "Due notice was given through the press and the BBC of the days on which particular age classes were required to register at any local office of the Ministry of Labour." The authorities did have means of identifying and tracing men who had apparently failed to register, by the way, and about 500,000 cases were investigated during the war, though in the vast majority of cases this turned out to be simply due to clerical error. Wartime recruits were enlisted for Hostilities Only, or Duration of the Present Emergency (the exact wording seems to have varied). Though of course how long the 'Present Emergency' was to be was left deliberately vague and undefined ... Best, Alan
I guess the 1939 census, undertaken for the purposes of National Registration, gave them a pretty good start point for identifying availability. Thanks again for your responses; it's beginning to make some sense to me (although why my flight engineer was 3 years late will probably remain a mystery) ..... so now, I must turn my attention to "reserved occupations" [Update: There is an age limit of 25 against the "Electricity Generation" section of the "reserved occupation" list. I am assuming that this would mean that as he was over 25 at the time of his scheduled enlistment, he would have been prevented from enlisting. I am therefore guessing that as the war progressed and the importance of the reserved occupation listing diminished (with women taking over many of the jobs), he volunteered for service and was accepted. Would this make sense?] Regards Pete
Based on feedback yesterday, I have produced the following summary which I hope is accurate. I would appreciate any comments and if anyone could fill in the blanks that would be brilliant: On 26 May 1939, the Military Training Act (1939) was introduced, which stated that all British men between the ages of 20 and 21 years, who were fit and able, were required to undergo six months' military training. To distinguish them from regular service personnel, they were classified as 'militiamen'. Men with dates of birth between …………………………… were instructed by the Ministry of Labour (via the press and the BBC) to register at their local Employment Exchange on Saturday 3rd June 1939. They were interviewed by a clerk, who took their personal details such as name, date of birth, address, educational standard, employment etc. They were asked if they had a preference of service (although they were warned that there was no guarantee that preferences would be met). Medical examinations of the registered men were carried out at …………………………….. starting on the 8th June 1939 and all those that were “fit and able” (and not in reserved occupations or conscientious objectors) received their call-up notices on or around 1st July 1939. Their call-up notices instructed them to report to their assigned training depots on 18th July 1939 to commence their six months training. The plan was that the men would return to their place of employment “on reserve” on completion of training. The process for the next batch of men with dates of birth of …………………………… had started on …… August 1939; however, with the outbreak of war on 3 September, the government introduced the National Service (Armed Forces) Act 1939, which superseded the Military Training Act. This act stated that all British men between the ages of 18 and 41 years, who were fit and able, were required to serve with one of the armed forces for the duration of the present emergency. Registration under the National Services Act for men with dates of birth ……………………………………. was on 21st October 1939, with medicals in the same week; call-up notices were issued on ……….. ?. This process continued throughout the war with registration taking place on every / every other ??? Saturday. (Schedule available in H.M.D. Parker, Manpower: A Study of War-Time Policy and Administration (London: HMSO, 1957). Regards Pete
Here are a few annotations: Based on feedback yesterday, I have produced the following summary which I hope is accurate. I would appreciate any comments and if anyone could fill in the blanks that would be brilliant: On 26 May 1939, the Military Training Act (1939) was introduced, which stated that all British men between the ages of 20 and 21 years, who were fit and able, were required to undergo six months' military training. To distinguish them from regular service personnel, they were classified as 'militiamen'. Men with dates of birth between …………………………… were instructed by the Ministry of Labour (via the press and the BBC) to register at their local Employment Exchange on Saturday 3rd June 1939. They were interviewed by a clerk, who took their personal details such as name, date of birth, address, educational standard, employment etc. They were asked if they had a preference of service (although they were warned that there was no guarantee that preferences would be met). Medical examinations of the registered men were carried out at …………………………….. starting on the 8th June 1939 and all those that were “fit and able” (and not in reserved occupations or conscientious objectors) received their call-up notices on or around 1st July 1939. Their call-up notices instructed them to report to their assigned training depots on 18th July 1939 [the first militiamen arrived at their depots on July 15th] to commence their six months training. The plan was that the men would return to their place of employment “on reserve” on completion of training. The process for the next batch of men with dates of birth of …………………………… had started on …… August 1939; however, with the outbreak of war on 3 September, the government introduced the National Service (Armed Forces) Act 1939, which superseded the Military Training Act. This act stated that all British men between the ages of 18 and 41 years, who were fit and able, were required to serve with one of the armed forces for the duration of the present emergency [It said that they were required to serve if called upon. Most in fact never were.]. Registration under the National Services Act for men with dates of birth ……………………………………. was on 21st October 1939, with medicals in the same week; call-up notices were issued on ……….. ?. This process continued throughout the war with registration taking place on every / every other ??? Saturday [no, the intervals were usually longer and more irregular than that]. (Schedule available in H.M.D. Parker, Manpower: A Study of War-Time Policy and Administration (London: HMSO, 1957). Regards Pete
I agree with Pete's summary. as annotated by Alan. Registration dates were certainly irregular, as were cohorts of men required to register. One way of keeping tabs on men attempting to duck the system was that on registration each man received a buff postcard acting as a certificate of registration. Any policeman could request a man appearing to be of military age but not in uniform to produce his certificate. It is almost certain that the man in question was in a reserved occupation, but by 1943 was allowed to volunteer. In practice very few men of almost 40 were actually called up.
[Update: There is an age limit of 25 against the "Electricity Generation" section of the "reserved occupation" list. I am assuming that this would mean that as he was over 25 at the time of his scheduled enlistment, he would have been prevented from enlisting. I am therefore guessing that as the war progressed and the importance of the reserved occupation listing diminished (with women taking over many of the jobs), he volunteered for service and was accepted. Would this make sense?] I don't think 'diminished' captures the complexity of what actually happened. The Reservation of skilled men changed a great deal during the war, yes, and on the whole there was a tightening-up of the system as the manpower pool diminished. But it wasn't simply a case of women workers taking over from men. If you want to know in detail what actually happened, Parker's book is your best bet. Best, Alan
Thanks for all your feedback again; hopefully I am getting there. I am really just trying to make sure my understanding is correct so that the blog we are producing on CA Butler is as accurate as we can get it. I guess the only way I am going to fill in the rest of the blanks (and learn more) is to raid the piggy bank and purchase Parkers. On the subject of reserved occupations, I will post my summary of that up on here later so that once again you can confirm whether or not my understanding is correct. Thank you all so much; I really do appreciate your interest and support on this one Regards Pete
it may be of interest my father who was born on october 24th 1900 had to register not sure of the date as i was only about 6 years old at the time , but can certainly remember my mother and father talking about it ...he had served in the WEST YORKS REGT 1919/1922 ,,he wasnt called to serve in the forces
