Film: Downfall - Der Untergang

i bought it a few weeks ago mainly for a report in my german class. very very good movie. on of the best wwii movies i have ever seen. bruno ganz is great as hitler.

 

More on Fegelein can be found in "the Bunker," by Joseph O'Donnell, and Fest's book on the last days of Hitler, as well as Joachimsthaler's book.

Those last days in the bunker are pretty riveting...the megalomaniacal dictator who once ruled Europe from the Berghof or the enormous Reich Chancellery, who ordered around army groups across France and Russia, was now confined to a half-finished bunker, under continuous shelling, screaming commanding a square mile, screaming denunciations of everyone, moving around rag-tag groups of Hitler Youth and non-existent divisions on a map of downtown Berlin. Hubris.

 

The movie 'Downfall' captures the imagination of Hitlers last stand in Berlin.
He was hopelessly lost and surrounded in the city center by the Russians.
Even though the film is in German it is quite good as it gives it a more realistic feel. subtitled
I really reccomend it... gory though.
kirkyboy
http://www.downfallthefilm.com/

 

This been discussed before, so I have merged the topics.

I agree that the feel is good and is one of the best portrayals of the times near the end of the Nazi regime in 1945.

 

I saw the film on DVD and thought it was well done. The actor Bruno Ganz kept you on the edge of your seat. There is a Traudl Junge interview on the World At War DVD which maybe interesting. She describes how surreal the last days were. What most troubled me was the denial, debauchery and the total loss of any morality, even in relationship to their own children. Der Untergang is a gripping movie.

 

(Lee Wisener @ Sep 30 2005, 03:13 PM) [post=39568]I just bought it at ASDA, probably watch it tonight.
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What is ASDA?

 

(jimbotosome @ Feb 1 2006, 05:22 AM) [post=45137](Lee Wisener @ Sep 30 2005, 03:13 PM) [post=39568]I just bought it at ASDA, probably watch it tonight.
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What is ASDA?
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A British supermarket chain, taken over by WalMart a couple of years ago.

 

I watched it, quite sad

 

I purchased and watched this per the advice of several. It was a well done movie. I wonder how factual it is. I mean, is some of it conjecture, some of it literary license, some of it exaggerated? It was worth buying.

By the way. Are there any good British battle films that are not oriented to make Monty walk on water or make the Americans look like imbeciles. I don't want an English "Patton" type movie. Something along the line of Saving Private Ryan, U-571, or Band of Brothers in quality of the action. You guys are always mentioning movies that I have never heard of.

 

I purchased and watched this per the advice of several. It was a well done movie. I wonder how factual it is. I mean, is some of it conjecture, some of it literary license, some of it exaggerated? It was worth buying.

Why worry. There are very few films made for the American market that actually stick to the facts as they tend to pump up the american contribution to world events, although I conceed that there are a few notable exceptions. So even if there is a little literary license, you should be used to it shouldn't you.

By the way. Are there any good British battle films that are not oriented to make Monty walk on water or make the Americans look like imbeciles. I don't want an English "Patton" type movie. Something along the line of Saving Private Ryan, U-571, or Band of Brothers in quality of the action. You guys are always mentioning movies that I have never heard of.
I really am surprised that you think U-571 is a good fim. As I mentioned berfore, it is made for the American market and shows a USN sub capturing the Enigma. Surely you should know that it was a Royal Navy Sub that actually achieved this.

As for good no nonsense British films. You can't go wrong with a little lauded masterpiece called 'Theirs is the Glory'. It's the story of Arnhem, filmed in black & white, it was filmed on location in Arnhem in 1946 without actors (which does show in a few places) but with soldiers who were actually there and mixeed with a lot of actual historical footage. Well worth a viewing but you aren't getting my copy.

 

I really am surprised that you think U-571 is a good fim.

Jim, U-571 a good movie? We're going to send you to Hampshire college film 101.

 

So even if there is a little literary license, you should be used to it shouldn't you.
I don't publish literature. I post opinions. Your analogy stinks.

I really am surprised that you think U-571 is a good fim. As I mentioned berfore, it is made for the American market and shows a USN sub capturing the Enigma. Surely you should know that it was a Royal Navy Sub that actually achieved this.
The FIRST one was British, the there were two that were captured by the Americans too. The Credit for the first capture being British was spelled out clearly at the end of the movie so you should rest your insecurity. The whole movie was fiction. And as far as me using it, had you have read my post without the attitude, you would have seen that I qualified its quality being "action", NOT historical accuracy. Pilot, you are a bit of a sniper are you not?

 

Jim, U-571 a good movie? We're going to send you to Hampshire college film 101.


Something along the line of Saving Private Ryan, U-571, or Band of Brothers in quality of the action.

Please read the post BEFORE commenting. Et tu Brute?

 

I purchased and watched this per the advice of several. It was a well done movie. I wonder how factual it is. I mean, is some of it conjecture, some of it literary license, some of it exaggerated? It was worth buying.

By the way. Are there any good British battle films that are not oriented to make Monty walk on water or make the Americans look like imbeciles. I don't want an English "Patton" type movie. Something along the line of Saving Private Ryan, U-571, or Band of Brothers in quality of the action. You guys are always mentioning movies that I have never heard of.
Jim, Having studied the war in the East and the collapse of Germany for a number of years (And I'm off on a trip to Berlin in April) I can tell you that it is fairly accurate. They didnt deviate much from what actually happened (The final hours of Fegelein is not completely accurate I think)

As regards your request for a good British Battle Film why not try something like "Ice Cold in Alex" or "the Dambusters"????

 

By the way. Are there any good British battle films that are not oriented to make Monty walk on water or make the Americans look like imbeciles. I don't want an English "Patton" type movie. Something along the line of Saving Private Ryan, U-571, or Band of Brothers in quality of the action. You guys are always mentioning movies that I have never heard of.

I think its obvious by now that there are many things that are debated on this forum that our poor old EP expert never heard of.

Jim, Having studied the war in the East and the collapse of Germany for a number of years (And I'm off on a trip to Berlin in April) I can tell you that it is fairly accurate. They didnt deviate much from what actually happened (The final hours of Fegelein is not completely accurate I think)

Well, the movie is mostly accurate. The only thing that did bother me about it is that we dont really know who were really some of the guys in the movie and what they have done prior to 1945. Fegelein was hardly a harmless fool, and Schenck was definitively not only a good humanitarian doc. But anyway, the level of research is still far better than crapola stuff like U-571 or Enemy at the Gates.

 

I don't publish literature. I post opinions. Your analogy stinks.
No, 'literary license' as in the script for the film, the screen play if you wish. Or do you think they just turn up and start filming, leaving the actual 'story' to be sorted out in the editing room? Come to think of it, it does look like it on some films.

The FIRST one was British, the there were two that were captured by the Americans too. The Credit for the first capture being British was spelled out clearly at the end of the movie so you should rest your insecurity. The whole movie was fiction. And as far as me using it, had you have read my post without the attitude, you would have seen that I qualified its quality being "action", NOT historical accuracy. Pilot, you are a bit of a sniper are you not?

But the film is says it discribes the capture of the first Enigma machine and enables the allies to decypher the german codes. This was already being done in Britain with the help of the Polish mathmatical 'Bombs' but having an actual machine speeded the decryption up.

Not sniping, but your 'opinions' aren't accurate again.

The first Enigma machine was captured by a boarding party from HMS Bulldog when British destroyers, HMS Bulldog, HMS Broadway, and HMS Aubrietia, attacked U-110 in May 1941.

On 27 August 1941 the U-570 surrendered to an aircraft although they did have the sense to destroy codes and the Enigma. The U-570 was put into service with the RN as HMS Graph.

In October 1942 HMS Petard lost two sailors trying to recover the Enigma machine from U-559, but they did manage to capture the code books.

In June 1944 a USN hunter killer group in the North Atlantic captured the U-505, the first time a U.S. Navy had captured an enemy vessel at sea since the 1800s, and they set scuttling charges and abandoned ship. Then as an after thought (well, they were out of practice) they sent a boat back to recover charts codes and the enigma.

The U-571 was actually sunk in January 1944 by an RAAF Sunderland of 461 Squadron in the North Atlantic.

So how accurate do you think the action is when it's based on a true story? The first Enigma wasn't captured by the USN and they didn't even sink the U-571. What would have been wrong with Hollywood setting the story on the right U-boat? Or with the RN actually capturing the first Enigma? Or actually saying in the film that the Enigma was captured 3 years before the Americans managed it? It all has to make the americans look so heroic doesn't it?

If you want accuracy in a U-boat film you need go no further than das Boot... and make sure you watch it in German.

 

I think its obvious by now that there are many things that are debated on this forum that our poor old EP expert never heard of.



Well, the movie is mostly accurate. The only thing that did bother me about it is that we dont really know who were really some of the guys in the movie and what they have done prior to 1945. Fegelein was hardly a harmless fool, and Schenck was definitively not only a good humanitarian doc. But anyway, the level of research is still far better than crapola stuff like U-571 or Enemy at the Gates.
As regards Fegelein Exx, he served with the 8th SS Cavalry Division "Florian Geyer" up to 1943 I think. He was engaged in partisan hunting in the Pripet Marshes area. I would think that there may have been a few atrocities involved in those actions. In Fact I think he commanded a brigade for a while.

Schenk was involved in Medical Experiments in Dachau I think, as was Stumpfegger and as for Mohnke, he was involved in the Massacre of British Prisoners in Frnace in 1940. I'll have better details tomorrow or Wed when I can get access to my sources properly.

 

Reminder: Downfall is on Channel 4 tonight at 9pm in the UK.

 

I thought Downfall was an excellent movie. Great acting job. I also thought some of the frauleins were cute.