German minisub found near Nijmegen in Waal

Interesting stuff, thanks!



Jakob

 

Remarkable what surfaces after all these years. The obvious unasked question is where is the rest of it?

cheers
phil

 

A Biber (Beaver) being taken alongside a launch.

Gives a good appreciation of scale.

Regards
Peter

 

Good to read and see the short video on recovery.

From what I understand the Biber was not a successful vessel.

Regards
Tom

 

Looked here just to refresh memory - not a very safe craft and something of a last hope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biber_(submarine)

 

Interesting thread, not heard of any of this before.
Well done that man!

 

I sugest all you read this amazing book in wich are depicted these actions in chapter VII:
K-Men: The Story of the German Frogmen and Midget Submarines
by Cajus Bekker, George Malcolm
Hardcover, Mann Books, George, ISBN 0704100061 (0-7041-0006-1)








Jan.

 

Reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biber_(submarine) a few things struck me:
1. They were lousy machines.
2. The conning tower was made of aluminium. This might explain that it is lost on the one found near Nijmegen. It could have been found before and the valuable aluminium was removed.
3. Bibers were mainly used in or close to Holland.
I think I remember having seen one in the museum in Overloon and there is one in the museum in the Fort of Hoek van Holland.

What happened after it had fired its torpedos or dropped its mines? Did it surface immediately? Or were there some "compensating" extra diving tanks?

Anyway, poor chaps that had to operate them.

Levien.

 

Thanks for finding this article. Does seem like a certain deathtrap.

 

hopefully it will be mate

 

I was speaking to a chap today (WW2 Royal Signals Attach to Recce Regiment).

He was telling me a few ditties about Holland and said one night he was on a patrol along the river bank nr Nijmegen Bridge (I'm assuming the RA had set up AA defences at this point) just after it was captured when they saw this submarine. Not knowing what to do they radio through to their HQ and got a rather crackled excited reply over the radio saying, 'Shoot it down with the 40mm Bofors'. He told me they looked at each other with a rather puzzled look and the SSGT said, 'How the F**k do you shoot a submarine down?'. They all then burst out laughing and I believe the submarine had disappeared.

 

Goodday .

I have to re on the posts above,

new is that the tail section of the Biber , that was in an exibision at Groesbeek museum , now in Fort Pannerden is .
.
For what mention the tower was of alu , is thats is was ligher en in the tower was an explosion divice , so that wen de pilot ,was leving the Minisub
he eject this divice and had 4 min to leave the minisub ,
by ecplosion the tower burst in smal peases , so the mini sub sunk and had no use for the enmey .

It was an proper minisub wen used good .

Wen it had dropt his torpedo ,or mines (in shape of an torpedo ) it went back to her starting point .

so far my remarks

sorry for my bad english

 

It's better than our Dutch, so don't worry.

 

Found this Video of a restored Biber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoT2o-N9Y8A

Another site with photo and info on the Biber.

http://www.uboataces.com/midget-biber.shtml

Quote from above site.

There were plans for a more advanced version of the Biber, with strengthened hull and greater rigidity, thus providing greater diving capability. The Biber II was to be a two man version with the crew taking turns of duty. Finally, Biber III was to feature a closed-cycle benzene engine but neither of these projects made it past the drawing board.
First delivered in May 1944, the first Biber mission took place at Fecamp, Belgium on August 20 1944. The Biber saw action in almost all coastal shores in Europe, including Norway, Denmark, France, Belgium, the Mediterranean and the Netherlands. They were used for coastal defense but their success was negligible, while sustaining heavy losses. A total of 324 were built, mainly by Flenderwerke, in Lubeck.

There is also a superbly renovated Version in the Bremerhaven Maritime Museum.

Regards
Tom

 

Here's a Biber near Uncle Beach at Vlissingen, Walcheren.

I recently visited the bunker museum at Ijmuiden and they have the remains of a 2-man German sub. Can't recall what it was called. I spoke to the guy and he said they are very rare, whereas Bibers are fairly common. It was buried on a beach up the coast at Egmond an Zee before being excavated a few years ago.

 

Thanks ,for the info ,

The minisub that was found at the coast in Egmond a see , is an Seehund .
It was in a very bad shape ,zo it almost ended up in a srabjard , bud luckely it did not ,
I hear that the boys of the museum of Hoek van Holland have safe the Seehund.
The photo above is an Biber and it is in Vleussing , Vlissingen beach .

I am looking for the war history of the regiments who were involvd , in the defending of the nijmegen bridge, and there capture of the german divers,and pilots of the Bibers, that wer used .
Were can i find the POW files of this men , ?
Furder the losses of britsch men , wen mines ore torpedos exploded and kild them . ,And the losses of the men (i think britisch ) who were killed by the explosion , of the railroadbridge , wen it exploded . on 28 sept 1944..

so far my coments and qwestions.

greetings
Rob

 

I came across the following when reading the 3rd Cdn Medium RCA diary regarding target tasking for Op Veritable. Is there any info on this sub base, upstream of Nijmegen, or more recent mini sub discoveries?

 

I think the Seehund was too late for the raid on the bridge. It started operations in the North Sea in Jan 1945

And yes the German min subs were a disaster - for their crews. I wrote the following some time ago

The Germans came comparatively late to the concept of the miniature submarine but became by far the largest constructor and user of such boats when compared to all the other combatants put together. The first of these craft were very primitive indeed being nothing more than a torpedo with the warhead removed and a small cockpit fitted, a second conventional torpedo was slung underneath. The Neger, the first version of this, was only semi submersible as there was no cover over the pilot’s cockpit. They were very susceptible to swamping. The second, the Marder, had a Plexiglas dome over the cockpit and could submerge if necessary but there was no air supply provided and many Marder pilots suffocated.
Over 500 Negers and Marders were built and were launched in some numbers from French beaches near to Normandy in an attempt to wreak destruction amongst the vast fleet supporting the D-day landings. They suffered extremely heavy casualties, many being lost even before they encountered Allied forces. The first attack by Negers was made on 5 July when 26 attacked the invasion fleet but of the 24 that reached the target area 15 were destroyed for the loss of 2 small minesweepers, HMS Magic and HMS Cato. This represented a loss of 65% but worse was to come; a second attack was made on the night of July 7/6 by 21 Negers and all were lost. The Allies lost HMS Plyades another small minesweeper and a Free Polish Navy cruiser was damaged.
The Marders fared no better; their first attack was made on the night of 2/3 August 1944 when no less than 58 Marders attacked Allied ships off Normandy. 41 of these were lost, a more than 70% casualty rate. They succeeded in sinking the destroyer HMS Quorn, a liberty ship and another small minesweeper. Another freighter was damaged, as was an empty block ship. Marders attacked again on the night 16/17 August when 42 attacked the French battleship Courbet. This had already been emptied and beached for use as a block ship and so represented a target of no value whatsoever. Two torpedoes hit it nevertheless. In addition a small barrage balloon vessel, HMS Fratton, and a landing craft were sunk. 27 Marders were sunk or captured (a 64% casualty rate). Thus in a month 106 miniature submarines had been lost and the impact on the invasion had been negligible.
Despite these appalling losses the Germans persisted in building miniature submarines. The Biber (324 built) and the Molch (390 built) were more sophisticated one man vessels capable of normal diving and underwater operation but with a relativity short range (which meant that they had to be launched relatively close to their targets). The Seehund was a two man vessel with a range of about 500 miles, this was effectively a small version coastal submarine. All three types were armed with two torpedoes carried outside in drop collars.
The Molch was used in the Mediterranean in an attempt to disrupt the Allied invasion of Southern France. On the night of 25/26 September 1944 12 Molchs attacked, sinking or damaging nothing for the loss of 10 miniature submarines. From January through April 1945 Molch and Biber midget boats were used in the North Sea and the Baltic and went out on 102 sorties, lost 70 of their own and only sank 7 very small ships (average size 70 tons) and damaged two others. The more sophisticated Seehunds were slightly less vulnerable; from January through April 1945 they carried out 142 sorties with the loss of 35 boats but only sank 8 ships (average tonnage 2,160) and damaged three more. This was still a horrific casualty rate.
A vast amount of effort and resources must have been expended in building and deploying the German miniature submarines and training their crews for very little return and a considerable loss of life in the German navy. It is depressing to consider just how many people were willing to undertake missions with a worse than a one in four chance of surviving in support of such an odious regime.

 

Unfortunately the report and photo in an earlier post won't open when I click on it. However from the various comments it sounds more like a Molch than either a Biber or a Seehund

 

Thank you to all contributors for this. I was unaware of the Germans using miniature submarines.