german tank at arnhem identity

Discussion in 'General' started by allanh53, Apr 30, 2020.

  1. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Hi Stolpi - excellent photo. Sorry to be pedantic but it's 'dairy' rather than 'diary' (dagboek). Probably 'milk processing plant' would be the more accurate English description of the building's function.

    Was the photo I posted known to you? Looking again at it, I can see a second AP strike mark at 1 o'clock and close to the obvious one on the lower glacis plate.


  2. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Sorry, a typo: I meant Dairy ... but will adapt it into 'milk processing plant' which sounds much better

    The different photographs of the knocked out tank (there are several more - all post-war) are well-known and appeared in many publications.
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  3. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    The pylon appears to be on the right side of the tank but on the left in the previous photo
  4. Wessex_Warrior

    Wessex_Warrior Junior Member

    Yeah the tank has clearly been pushed to it's left closer to the building to clear the road. Those aerial photos are really excellent. You can see that when the German commander said "Flatten Arnhem" they certainly did a good job with the help of 30 Corps Artillery as well.

  5. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I think most of it was down to the airforces trying to hit the bridge.

    Cheers, Stolpi, for the clarification. I'd be happier if I could tie-in that building behind the tank in JDKR's photo but shouldn't complain at the riches provided here.
  6. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Idler: Another view of the wrecked Pz IV which reveals some more of the surrounding buildings. If you look close the factory building with the tower is also visible on the aerial I posted previously.

    Pz IV Camiz.jpg
    Photo courtesy: De verwoeste Camiz zuivelfabriek aan de Westervoortsedijk in 1945 - Serc
    Pz IV Camiz 2.jpg
    Photo courtesy: Cookiewall: Cookies op Indebuurt

    Re the destruction: most of it was caused by the post-airborne-battle aerial bombardments in Oct 44, when the Arnhem bridge was targeted and knocked out by Allied bombers, see: NIJMEGEN BRIDGEHEAD: II.SS Pz Corps' counterattack in October 1944
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  7. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Re the location: herewith some fragments of the After the Battle OMG publication.

    The tank was standing next to building 22. The 'pipe bridge' ran between buildings 22 and 23 across the Westervoortsedijk. The road running to the river between buildings 18 and 22 - called Ooststraat - formed the entrance to the Bailey bridge, which is on the aerials posted by Morrisc8

    ATB OMG 2.jpg

    The Pz IV was not the only tank that was KO'd in this area. The action occurred on Monday afternoon 18 September and was a first probing attack by the Kampfgruppe Knaust. The tanks belonged to the Panzer Coy Mielke a tank training unit that consisted of (by that time) obsolete Pz III and a couple of Pz IV.

    ATB OMG 1.jpg
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  8. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Re locations see above post
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Thanks. I think the problem is that the building with the skylights behind the tower isn't on the pre-war aerial.
    The tower is just visible on the edges of the two complementary aerials in B Company Arrived but they haven't caught the 'new' building.
  10. idler

    idler GeneralList

    OK, happy now! Thanks again for the extra information.

    B Company Arrived
    also has a 1939 aerial which provides a useful comparison. The only thing missing is the big pylon to the left somewhere.

    Arnhem 1939 extract.jpg
    stolpi likes this.
  11. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Hope this adds a little to this cracking thread, and for those who may not have seen the clip before (note, bridge at the start is likely Nijmegen, definitely not Arnhem!)

    It's brief, but has views of the post liberation Bailey bridge and of the bombed (by the allies in October/November '44) bridge at Arnhem and the decimated kirk(s), plus a tantalising glimpse of the area to the east of the bridges behind the cycling squaddies (unfortunately just beyond the immediate area being discussed I think)

    And again, stolpi, idler, brilliant work!

    Kind regards, always,

    stolpi likes this.
  12. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Definitely Nijmegen bridge as seen from the "Belvedere" - a vestige of the old Castle at the Valkhof; Arnhem bridge at the time lay in ruins.

    Arnhem Bridge KO'd bridge.jpg

    For the Belvedere see: VERITABLE 1945: 3rd Canadian Division in Op Veritable
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  13. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    There was 2 Panthers used in the shooting of the movie, one of which as Stolpi says was brought from Germany on a low loader. Only one of the two Panthers was in running order so the other static one was presumably that which Frank Dixon of the 21st Independent Company knocks out with his PIAT on Weverstraat. Interestingly, when he takes aim at the Panther he's leaning on the hull of a knocked out King Tiger which means you can today place exactly where the scene was shot, providing you know where the King Tiger was of course.

    Splendid acting.
    mollusc and stolpi like this.
  14. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Following up the earlier query on the Airborne 6-pr, here are the two articles from the old Army & Navy Modelworld magazine c1986. Note that the conversion misses the reduced track but it may still be of interest to someone...

    Airborne 6 Pounder - Army & Navy Modelworld January-February 1986 p22.jpg Airborne 6 Pounder - Army & Navy Modelworld January-February 1986 p23.jpg Airborne 6 Pounder - Army & Navy Modelworld January-February 1986 p24.jpg Airborne 6 Pounder - Army & Navy Modelworld January-February 1986 p25.jpg
    Airborne 6 Pounder - Army & Navy Modelworld April 1986 p07.jpg Airborne 6 Pounder - Army & Navy Modelworld April 1986 p08.jpg Airborne 6 Pounder - Army & Navy Modelworld April 1986 p09.jpg
    von Poop likes this.
  15. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    it all in the book :)

    Attached Files:

  16. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    P Troop Battery will be out this year, A,B,C already published.

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