Hi, I have recently been made aware of this forum but would like to try and find out as much as I possibly can about my Great Grandfather. Herbert (went by the name Glyn). Herbert Glindow Adams 20th June 1915 Shobdon, Herefordshire Margaret Latham 14 October 1935. Bugler, King's Shropshire Light Infantry 21 September 1987 Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire I did not know much about him as my mother, grew up with her mother, following her father's death. Her grandparents (Herbert and Madge) lost contact with my mother over time as my mother was very young. She recently asked me to try and find out as much information as I possibly can about them so we decided to take a DNA test to try and find any living relatives amongst them. Luckily enough, we matched to one of Herbert's sister's descendants (One she whomed named after him). Herbert and this sister were very close and she kept an awful lot of information about Herbert and spoke about him to her family. It is believed by them, that he was fighting in Dunkirk at the time and that he had to have a metal plate instilled into his head. They sent me newspaper clippings, photos, and information in relation to him. They forwarded me a newspaper clipping that reads; Sight Restored After Berlin Operation L.-Cpl. Herbert Glyndo Adams, of The Hawthorns, Broadmoor Common - Woolhope, who was one of the men to suffer bitter disappointment when the [?] repatriation scheme, after coming so near fulfillment, had to be abandoned, is a near neighbor of another repatriate - A.B Ivor Parry, of The Lodge, Woolhope. A Territorial in th K.S.L.I (three of his seven years of service had been spent in India). L.-Cpl. Adams was recalled at the outbreak of war and went to France. He was in the Dunkirk [?Fighting?], but escaped the enemy; at this time he was acting as a despatch rider. He moved westwards with these elements still on French soil and was captured at St. Valery on 20th June. His injuries were severe - a bullet in the head, and one also in the hip, the [?] wound causing [?] to - go [?] [?] five months. In Berlin, a German surgeon performed a successful operation for the removal of a blood clot on the brain, and L.-Cpl. Adams is appreciative of the medical treatment all ordered for him. He was in several camps in Germany. His deep appreciation of the Red Cross is expressed tersely but fully- "The Red Cross kept us alive." Both he and A.B Perry were in hospital together. When the first and abortive exchange was being prepared, they came on the way back together and had reached [?] when news of its cancellation reached them. When his 28 days leave is ended L.-Cpl. Adams has to go into hospital for another operation. Following this, his marriage certificate to his wife in 1935 marked his occupation as Bugler in King's Shropshire Light Infantry with his number 4031747 and was located at Whittington Barracks, Litchfield, Staffordshire. Searching his regimental number in The National Archives showed me that there was a POW record that contained 13 cards. I recently took went to The National Archives to capture an image of all these cards. Nearly all of them wrote in German and were very difficult to decipher. I also found on Find My Past, several images that showed he was a 'missing soldier between 20-30th May 1940 from the K.S.L.I. Then there was a record which says 'Wounded and Prisoner of War. previously shown on casualty list' which was on the 8th April 1941 from the K.S.L.I. Then a record which says 'Was previously reported Wounded and a Prisoner of War Now Repatriated' in 1943 from the K.S.L.I. Below is a small transcription of what I have been able to work out over the last few days from the 13 Cards. Please note that they are not in date order as of yet. I am able to provide a photo of any of the cards if you would like to look at it in more detail.
Welcome to the forum Apply for his service records Get a copy of military service records date of birth death cert £30 required other members will be along shortly to offer further assistance
Card 1; Name - Glyndower Adams Prison Camp - Stalag XXIA Schildberg Prisoner Number - 16257 Rank - Lance Corporal When and From Where Received - 22 Dec 1941 Heilag Rouen. On the back of that card it is wrote; 10 June 1940 Hospital De FeCamp 28 April 1942 Stalag XXIA Reserve-Lazarett Schildberg. 29 April Stalag XXIA 6 Feb 1943 Reserve-Lazarett Schildberg 6 Mar 1943 Stalag XXIA Card 2; Name - Glyn Adams Birth - 8 June 1906 Shrewsbury, Shropshire Rank - Sargent Inscription of Dog Tag - 16257 Type of Illness - Ingrown toenails on both feet for operation. Card 3; Name – Glynn Adams Birth – 8 June 1906 Shrewsbury, Shropshire Inscription of Dog Tag – 16257 Rank - Sargent Type of Illness –For the observation and research of his mind Where from – Stalag XXIA Warehouse Factory 6 February 1943 Where to – Stalag XXIA Part Factory [?] 6 March 1943 Card 4; Name – Glindow Adams Birth 8 June 1911 Troop Part – English Hospital – Hospital of Fe Camp Rank – Motorcyclist Type of Illness – Cartridge from Military 10th Jun 1940 – 21st October 1940 Card 5; Name – Herbert Adams Birth – 8 June 1910 Bodnam South Wales Troop Part – K.S.L.I Identification Tag – Stalag IX.C.16257 Type of Illness – Shot in the head by Panzer, Middle finger right. Hand left Where from – Stadtroda Reserve-Lazarett 21st April 1941 Where to - Stalag IXC 2nd Aug 1941 Card 7; Name – Herbert Adams Birth – 8 June 1910 Shobdon Troop Part – Stalag IXC, Bad Sulza Front Stalag 171 Rank – English KGF[?] Identification Tag – 171 / 16257 Type of Illness – Head, Middle Finger, Right 10 June 1940 PanzerKanone Where from – Laz.Zug 613 on 26 February 1941 Where to – B.W [?] Treatment Reserve-Lazarett 28 March 1941. Card 8; Name – Herbert Adams Birth – 8th June 1910 Bodnam Stalag VIII B Teschen Prisoner Number – 16257 Rank – Lance Corporal 4031747 This is Stamped 14 October 1943 Card 9; Name – Herbert Adams Birth – 8th June 1910 Bodnam, South Wales Why Unfit – Headshot by [?]. Right hand wounded. Card 11; Name – Herbert Adams Birth - 8 June 1910 Shobdon, Herefordshire Rank - Lance Corporal Troop Part - C.M.P ? Military Number- 4031747 Capture or Internment – 10 June 1940 Fe Camp Residence and Changes- On 21 April 1941 from Front Stalag 171 to Stalag XIC On 10 October 1941 from Stalag XIC to Heilag Rouen On 10 April 1943 from Stalag XXIA to Stalag XXID On 23 June 1943 from Stalag XXD to [?] Hospital Treatment- 26 February 1941 from Laz Zug 613 to Reserve-Lazarett Stadtroda [?] 42. 28 March 1941 to Reserve-Lazarett Schleiz. 21 April 1941 from Stadtroda Reserve-Lazarett to Reserve-Lazarett Obermahsfeld [?] 93 22 August 1941 from Stalag IXC Bad Sulza [?] Card 12; Name- Glyndower Adams Birth 8 June 1911 Bodnam Religion- R.C Rank- Lance Corporal Military Number- 4031747 Wounded Capture 10 June 1940 FeCamp Camp- XXIA Identification Tag- 76257 Diseases- Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 28 April 1942 Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 6 November 1943 – 7 November 1943 Transfers- 7 Jan 1942 aus XXIE 10 April 1943 (New Warehouse is Stalag XXID) 23 June 1943 Heilag Montwy 14 October 1943 Stalag XXI Card 13; Name- Herbert Adams Birth- 8 June 1910 Bodnam Religon- Catholic Identification Labelling Tag- 16257 Nationality- English Rank- Troop Part- C.M.A.P? Civil Occupation- Painter Date of Capture- 10 June 1940 FeCamp Size- 5’8 Hair Colour- Brown Special Marks- Both Hands Tattooed Punishment- Disciplinary violations. 2 Days protected detention, Arrested, 26 March 1943 – 29 March 1943 Illness- Brain Injury, 21 April 1941 Obernfeld – 22 August 1941 Stalag Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 28 April 1942
I would like to have a better understanding of him if possible as for some reason I cannot seem to find why he was fighting in Dunkirk and then went to St Valery (where he was captured according to the newspaper) or Fe Camp (according to the Prisoner of War Cards). He is also not mentioned in an of the KSLI 1939-1945 books purchased. I do understand that his story will forever be lost as those immediately around him vanished or died with his complete story but any better understanding such as what he was doing/were about he was in Dunkirk and the days up until he went 'missing', according to the British Army would be amazing to try and find out. - Or maybe I have missed something from any books about him. I have not been able to find a copy of the War Diary of the 1st Batallion (who was fighting in Dunkirk the other Batallion remaining in India). Is there any sort of way to get medical records of him from the Hospital of FeCamp in relation to the war to see what the extent of his injuries was?
Assume you require the war diaries which would possibly show his journey through theatre It would be unusual to be mentioned by name in a book unless something specific happened worthy of mention. Re medical records I would suggest even if they were available you would hit dead end due to confidentiality I have sent a private message to one of our Dunkirk experts who might be able to help have a look at this thread for info 4034354 Leonard MORRIS, 1st Battalion, King's Shropshire Light Infantry: 22/05/1940 regards Clive
I hope I have written this correctly, I have tried to piece together all information from the cards and put them in date order of his movements whilst as a Prisoner of War. Name: Herbert Adams Date of Birth: 8th June 1910/1911 Place of Birth: Bodnam, South Wales/Shrewsbury, Shropshire/Shobdon, Herefordshire Nationally: English/British Religion: Catholic/R.C Size: 5ft 8' Hair Colour: Brown Rank: Private/Lance Corporal/Sargent Military Service Number: 4031747 Regiment: King’s Shropshire Light Infantry Civil Occupation: Painter Special Marks: Both Hands Tattooed Missing: 20 May 1940-30th May 1940 Reported as Causality (On Causality List 483): 8 April 1941 Date of Capture: 10 June 1940/20th June 1940 Place of Caputre: FeCamp, France/St Valery, France Prisoner Identification Number: 16257/76257 Troop Part: C.M.A.P[?]/C.M.P[?]/ Injuries Obtained (In order): Shot in the head by Panzer, Middle finger right. Hand left Headshot by [?]. Right hand wounded. Cartridge from Military 10th Jun 1940 – 21st October 1940 Ingrown toenails on both feet for operation For the observation and research of his mind 6 February 1943 Camps (In Order): Front Stalag 171 21 April 1941 Stalag IXC 2nd August 1941 Stalag XIC 10 October 1941 Heilag Rouen 22 Dec 1941 Stalag XXIA Schildberg 22 Dec 1941 aus XXIE 7 Jan 1942 Stalag XXIA 28 April 1942 Stalag XXIA 6 February 1943 Stalag XXIA 6 March 1943 Stalag XXIA 10 April 1943 Stalag XXID 10 April 1943 Heilag Montwy 23 April 1943 Stalag XXID 23 June 1943 Stalag VIII B Teschen 14 October 1943 Stalag XXI 14 October 1943 Hospitals (In Date Order): Hospital of Fe Camp 10th Jun 1940 - 21st October 1940 Laz Zug 613 26 February 1941 to Reserve-Lazarett Stadtroda Schleiz Reserve-Lazarett 28 March 1941 Stadtroda Reserve-Lazarett 21 April 1941 – Obermahsfeld Reserve-Lazarett Obernfeld 21 April 1941 - 22 August 1941 Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 28 April 1942 Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 6 February 1943 - 7 March 1943 Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 6 November 1943 – 7 November 1943 Punishments: Bad Behaviour. Arrested, 2 Days Protected Detention 26 March 1943 – 29 March 1943 Reported as a Repatriated Solider: 13 November 1943 Camp, Hospital, Injuries, Punishments and Reported Lists Combined (In Order): Reported as Missing 20 May 1940 - 30 May 1940 Shot in the head by Panzer, Middle finger right. Hand left Headshot by [?]. Right hand wounded. Cartridge from Military 10th Jun 1940 – 21st October 1940 Hospital of Fe Camp 10th Jun 1940 - 21st October 1940 Laz Zug 613, 26 February 1941 to Reserve-Lazarett Stadtroda Schleiz Reserve-Lazarett 28 March 1941 Reported as casualty on Casualty List 489, 8 April 1941 Stadtroda Reserve-Lazarett 21 April 1941 – Obermahsfeld Reserve-Lazarett Front Stalag 171 21 April 1941 Brain Injury 21st April 1941 Stadtroda Reserve-Lazarett 21st April 1941 Obernfeld 21 April 1941 - 22 August 1941 Stalag IXC 2nd August 1941 Stalag XIC 10 October 1941 Heilag Rouen 22 Dec 1941 Stalag XXIA Schildberg 22 Dec 1941 aus XXIE 7 Jan 1942 Ingrown toenails on both feet for operation 28 April 1942 Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 28 April 1942 Stalag XXIA 28 April 1942 For the observation and research of his mind 6 February 1943 Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 6 February 1943 - 7th March 1943 Stalag XXIA 6 February 1943 Stalag XXIA 6 March 1943 Disciplinary violations. Bad Behaviour. Arrested, 26 March 1943 – 29 March 1943 Stalag XXIA 10 April 1943 Stalag XXID 10 April 1943 Heilag Montwy 23 April 1943 Stalag XXID 23 June 1943 Stalag VIII B Teschen 14 October 1943 Stalag XXI 14 October 1943 Schildberg. Reserve-Lazarett 6 November 1943 – 7 November 1943 Reported as Now Repatriated to France 13 November 1943
Thank you, I will definitely purchase that, I already have filled out the forum for it to be honest. Just waiting for the Post Office or Bank to re-open on Tuesday (because of Bank Holiday). Thank you for forwarding me to that thread. I did see that, I just did not want to 'hijack' his thread with my own research. I also thank you for pointing one of the Dunkirk experts onto my thread. Kindest Regards Andrew
I have just noticed that on these Wounded Prisoner of War Lists and Repatriated List that the words “2.I.B.D” or 2.1.B.D” are next to his name. Could I use this information at all to identify further information, maybe on a battalion or anything? Many Thanks.
According to his first casualty list, which you didn't post, went missing sometime 20/31 May 1940. The 2 I.B.D or 2 1.B.D (it's written as both) is in the space where the man's unit is written, afraid I can't help but sure someone else can.
the queried entry is likely 2 I B D = Number 2 Infantry Base Depot. I’m afraid I’m not aware of the unit (camp) location but it would likely be far away from the frontline towards Cherbourg. Forum member Drew5233 will likely be able to assist. He may have been newly arrived in “Theatre” and not allocated to a Battalion as a reinforcement - as ever patience is a virtue and all will be revealed in his service record. In the retreat to Dunkirk and the days afterwards various ad hoc units were formed for defensive duties in Northern France made up of “odds & sods” and often called ???? Force (???? often being the name of the CO). In one of your earlier posts you posted “KGF?” - that will be the German acronym for POW - KriegsGeFangener (sic). Steve EDIT TO ADD You ought to make an online application to Red Cross 26th September for copies of the records held there. Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached You need to be quick off the mark in completing the online application form that will pop up in the day. The application window often closes within 2 hours as the limit is quickly reached. It is a free service and you get get an email reply within 6 to 8 weeks that usually contains a copy of a POW Capture Post Card completed on arrival at the first camp.
I will await Drews take on this, I can see that he is highly recommended in helping people try and find out more information! I really appreciate it! I have submitted for his Service Record, just a waiting game now! I hear that it can take a very long time to arrive though! Like you said though, patience is a virtue. Thank you for telling me about what I.B.D. would have meant, I have been struggling on this for a fair bit. I noticed that someone in 2013[?] also had a similar story about one of their ancestors with 2 I.B.D on this fourm. Dunkirk or Cherbourg ...? Thank you for clearing that up for me! Thank you very much for informing me of this service that can be done for free! I will be sure to check repetitively throughout the day to submit an application!
So I have recently received the Army Records from the MOD that I paid for. There is a fair amount of records, I will shorten it down as per record. Army Attestation Paper; 1). What is your Full Name? Christian Name - Herbert Glyndo....Surname - Adams 2). In or near what Parish or Town were you born? - In the Parish Town of - Kington....In the County of - Herefordshire 3). a). Are you a British Subject - Yes b). Nationality of Parents Father? - English.....Mother? - Welsh 4). What Trade or Calling? - Labourer Agruculttual 5).a). What was your age (in years) last birthday? - 18 b). Day, Month and year of birth? - 8 June 1914 6).a). Are you Married? - No b). How many children are dependent upon you? - None 7). Do you now belong to the Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force? - No 8). Have you ever served in the Royal Navy, the Army, Royal Air Force? - No 9). Have you truly stated the whole, if any, of your previous service? - Yes 10). Are you, or have been an Indentured Apprentice? - No 11). Have you ever been convicted by the Civil Power? - No 12). Have you ever been rejected for enrolment or enlistment in the Naval, Military, or Air Force? - No 13). Are you willing to be vaccinated or re-vaccinated? - Yes 14). For what Corps are you willing to be enlisted, or are you willing to be enlisted for General Service? - Kings Shropshire Light Infantry 15). If you are enlisting for service in the Cavalry of the Line, do you understand that you will be liable to serve with any Regiment of the Corp? - Yes 16). Do you understand that, notwithstanding you enlist for a dismounted Corps, you are liable to be trained and employed in such mounted duties as may be required? - Yes Everything else is yes and Signed for in his name. This certificate is dated 21 October 1932.
This page is pretty empty but is stapled to the Attestation paper above. Military History Sheet. 10). Name, Address, and relationship of next of Kin? - Minnie J Adams, c/o (?) Mr Fanow, Merrivale, Eastwood, nr Ledbury, Herefordshire. Statement of Service of Number 4031747. Name Herbert Glyndo Adams Joined at Hereford on 21 October 1932. Kings Shropshire Light Infantry - Attested - Private - 21.10.1932 Description of Herbert Glyndow Adams on Enlistment Apparent age - 18 Years and 4 Months Height - 5ft 6" Weight - 123Ibs Chest Measurements; - Fully Expanded 35".... Range of Expansion 2" Complexion - Fresh Eyes - Blues Hair - Brown Religious Denomination - Church of England Distinctive marks and marks indicating congenital peculiarities or previous disease - Scar Knuckles Right Hand, Left Wrist, Scares of Knees. Medical Examinations took place on 21st October 1932. Certificate of Approving Officer took place on 31st October 1932, appointing him to Kings Shropshire Light Infantry. This conclused all attached to the one paper.
Papers number 2 show me a bit more detail, Army Number - 4031747 Christian Name - Herbert Glyndow Adams Enlisted at Hereford on - 21 October 1932. Regiment or Corps - Kings Shropshire Light Infantry. Unit - Promotion, Reductions, Casualities - Army Rank - Date KSLI - Attested - Private - 21 October 1932 Depot - Posted - Private - 1 November 1932 2nd - Posted - Private - 16 March 1933 Forfeits 22 days pay by R.W for absence from tattoo 27 February 1936 till 8-15am 20 March 1936 apprehended by Civil Power 18-15am In class arrest from 11-10pm - Private - 20th March 1936 - 21st March 1936 Awarded 14 days detention by C.O for 1). absence 2). Deficiency of Public Clothing and Regimental necessaries - Private - 23rd March 1936 To detention Barracks Aldershot - Private - 23rd March 1936 Released Detention Barracks Aldershot - Private - 4th April - 1936 1st - Posted - Private - 15th October 1936 Transferred to Section B Army Reserve with his consent before the expiration of his period of Colour service. Para. 382 (11) (E) (I) Kings Regs - Private - 17 June 1939 Depot "B" - Rejoined Colours for Temporary Service- Private - 15th August 1939 1st - Posted - Private - 16th August 1939. Mobilised at Bordon - 2nd September 1939 Home Defence - Posted - Private - 8th September 1939 Infantry Training Centre - Posted - Private - 3rd October 1939 Awarded 14 days detention by Officer Commanding I-T-C 4th March 1940 and forfeits 2 days pay under R.W for absence from 23:59 hours 1st March 1940 to 11:30 hours 3rd March 1940. To detention (Guard Detention Room) 4th March 1940 Amitted Military Prison and Detention Barracks, Shepton Mallet 6th March 1940. (In-class arrest from time of (?) to disposal of ease). - Private - 4th March 1940 Released Military Prison and Detection Barrack Shepton, Mallet 2pm. - Private - 16th March 1940 1 Day Remitted set for Sunday 7 Hdg. Bn - Posted - Private - 13th April 1940 "X" List - Posted "X" List - Private - 30th April 1940 "X" List - Posted to No 2 I.B.D - Private - 1st May - 1940 Missing - Private - 20/31st May 1940 Now Prionser of War 16257 Front Stalag 171 (Lager Rouen France). Wounded - Private - 31st March 1941 Repatriated to U.K 25th October 1943. Certificate of Education Part 11 Order - 83 Class - 3rd Subject - Date of Award - 2nd August 1938 Military History Sheet. Home - British - 21st October 1932 - 14th October 1936 India - Indian - 15th October 1936 - 23rd December 1938 Home - British - 24th December 1938 - 4th May 1939 V.T.C Chisledon - British - 5th May 1939 - 17th June 1939 Army Reserve - British - 18th June 1939 - 14th August 1939 Home - British - 15th August 1939 - 30th April 1940 France British Expeditionary Force - British - 1st May 1940 - 30th May 1940 Germany - Prisoner of War - 31st May 1940 - 24th October 1943 Home - Repatriated -25th October 1943 - 27th February 1944 Full Name and Address of Next of Kin and Relationship 1). Mother - Mrs Minnie J. Adams - c/o Mr Fanow, Merrivale, Eastwood nr Ledbury, Herefordshire. 2). Forest? Velio? - Broadmoor Common, Woolhope, 3). Wife - 144 Chase Road - Burntwood - Litchfield. 4). Independent Order of Oddfellows. Marriage Margery Latham - English - Spinster - 14th October 1935 Registery Office Litchfield. This concludes the 2nd lot of papers stappled together that the MOD Sent me.
Paper number 3. Service and Casualty Form. Kings Shropshire Light Infantry Surname - Adams Christian Name - Herbert Glyndow Rank - Private Date of Birth Declared - 8th June 1914 Date of Enlistment - 21st October 1932 Religion - Church of England Trade on Enlistment - Agricultural Labourer Corps - Kings Shropshire Light Infantry Army Number - 4031747 Transfer to Army Reserve - 17th June 1939 Rank on Transfer to Army Reserve - Private Service in present rank - 6 Years, 240 Days Next of Kin - Wife - Mrs Adams, 144 Chase Road, Burntwood, nr Litchfield, Staffordshire. 1st KSLI - Mobilised - UK - Private - 1st September 1939 Embarked - UK - Private - 24th September 1939 Disembarked - France - 25th September 1939 Missing - France - 20th/31st May 1940 Prisoner of War - France - 20th/31st May 1940 Home - Repriated to U.K - Private - 25th October 1943 "Y" List - Posted - Private - 25th October 1943 ADM? Military Hospital Daryhanone(?) - Field - Private - 26th October 1943 Discharged - Private - 27th October 1943 Discharged Para 390 (XVI) KRS? 40 Permanently unfit for any form of military service. - Shrewsbury - Private - 27th February 1944 Conduct - Honest John and a hard worker. Should have every stratification in suitable employment.
Paper number 4 Service and Casualty Form Kings Shropshire Light Infantry Surname - Adams Christian Name - Herbert Glyndow Date of Enlistment - 21st October 1932 Corps - Kings Shropshire Light Infantry Army Number - 4031747 KSLI - Disembarked - France - 1st May 1940 "X" List - Posted to No 2 I.B.D - France - 1st May 1940