Royal Scots Fusilier - 3137161

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by HighlandRoots, Sep 4, 2024.

  1. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    Hello all,

    I am trying to find out what battalion my grandfather was attached to, I believe he joined the Royal Scots Fusiliers in 1941. His service number: 3137161. He was from Fife, Scotland. He was one of many friends that signed up to fight and was the only one who returned.

    I believe he may of been part of the 2nd battalion RSF, as I know he fought in Anzio, and spent time in Africa where he was blown up on an ammunition truck and spent time as a casualty wherever he was posted. I’m not entirely sure where in Africa he was but have read that the 2nd RFS were in Morocco for some time before being posted to Italy. From what little I know he was a good “runner”, which understood to mean as someone appointed to run messages back and forth, but could be entirely wrong.

    I am awaiting his death certificate, so I am able to request a copy of his military record.

    Any information or insights anyone could offer me would be greatly appreciated, as my historical research skills are nothing to write home about. I’d be interesting in learning of his/his battalion movements throughout the war, and most helpfully confirmation of the regiment he was actually in.

    Ive spent some time reading some war journals of the 2nd RSF in Italy, and all I can say is we owe those men such respect and honour and it’s truly humbling to know that my grandfather was part of it. And is such learning all about it.

    Thank you all in advance for any comments or advice.

    **Edit ….Anzio and Monte Casino
     
  2. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Welcome aboard,

    His official Service Record? That is the definitive record of his service; following changes records can now either be with the MoD or en route / with The National Archives. Secondly, it can take a long time to get. Details on PM next.

    This website confirms he joined the RSF. Others may help with an approx. date too. From: https://www.corpsofmilitarypolice.org/tools/armynumber?query=3137161

    Wiki does indicate the 2nd were in Italy and then NW Europe. See: Royal Scots Fusiliers - Wikipedia Only when you get his Service Record will his unit be confirmed.

    It would help the sleuths here to add his full name, DoB. Service Number (which has not appeared here before your post) and when he died. If you have additional details, letters, photos they can all help. Sometimes a person has already appeared here.

    Using this to search: "2nd (or 2) Battalion" + "Royal Scots Fusiliers" site:ww2talk.com I found a small number of threads on the battalion. Some at a glance are about France 1940.

    One thread refers to a regimental history: Colonel J.C. Kemp's "History of the Royal Scots Fusiliers 1919-1959", pub. 1963. There is a regimental museum in Glasgow: The Royal Highland Fusiliers Museum Glasgow

    Another option here is the 'tag' system (which can only be created by you as author of the 1st post) and that reveals a number of threads: 2 royal scots fusiliers | WW2Talk

    Note their name is often shortened to RSF, if you change to that the same threads appear.

    This thread illustrates what can be found and provided here: 11th Battalion RSF Companies
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2024
  3. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    From my understanding the places my grandad would have encountered, in sequence, were:

    - Florence
    - Rome
    - Naples
    - Pompei
    - Africa
     
  4. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    The Royal Scots Fusiliers | National Army Museum

    From link above:
    2nd Battalion fought in Persia (now Iran) and Iraq (1942-43), and Sicily and Italy (1943-44), including the Battle of Anzio (1944) during the latter campaign. In February 1945, it deployed to North West Europe to take part in the invasion of Germany.

    Royal Scots Fusiliers - Wikipedia

    5th Infantry Division (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

    Order of battle
    The 5th Infantry Division was constituted as follows during the war:[22][21]
    13th Infantry Brigade (detached to Force 121 in Madagascar from 26 April until 2 August 1942)[28]

    2nd Battalion, Cameronians (Scottish Rifles)
    2nd Battalion, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers (30 November 1939 to 14 August 1944)
    2nd Battalion, Wiltshire Regiment
    13th Infantry Brigade Anti-Tank Company (from 3 September 1939, disbanded 6 January 1941)
    5th Battalion, Essex Regiment (from 14 August 1944)
    13th Infantry Brigade Support Company (from 4 May 1943, left 20 June 1944)
    15th Infantry Brigade[29]

    1st Battalion, Green Howards
    1st Battalion, King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
    1st Battalion, York and Lancaster Regiment
    15th Infantry Brigade Anti-Tank Company (formed 29 September 1939, disbanded 6 January 1941)
    15th Infantry Brigade Support Company (from 4 May 1943, left 14 June 1944)
    17th Infantry Brigade (Brigade HQ formed 3 October 1939, detached to Force 121 in Madagascar from 15 March to 30 June 1942)[30]

    2nd Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers (from 4 October 1939)
    2nd Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders (from 4 October 1939, left 30 March 1940)
    2nd Battalion, Northamptonshire Regiment (from 5 October 1939)
    17th Infantry Brigade Anti-Tank Company (formed 18 October 1939, disbanded 6 January 1941)
    6th Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders (from 30 March 1940)
    17th Infantry Brigade Support Company (from 4 May 1943, left 6 June 1944)
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2024
  5. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    Thanks a bunch, I also found this link to be quite informative too ;
    Battalions in World War 2 | The Royal Scots
     
  6. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Different Regiment

    2 RS served with British 1st Infantry Division after Anzio
    (Florence to the Gothic Line)

    2 RS Fusiliers serve with British 5th Division
    They fought at Anzio alongside British 1st Inf Div.
     
    Owen likes this.
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    As Uncle Target says The Royal Scots & The Royal Scots Fusiliers were different regiments.
     
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  8. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    Forgive me, my error. I would assume in this case he was 2 RSF for certain. I will upload his details and photo soon, and military record when it comes through.

    thanks all
     
  9. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    I’ve also noticed other 2 RSF members with similar Service numbers; 313****
     
  10. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    I think I can safely assume he was in 2RSF but what I can’t understand is why he would have been in Africa after Italy, as there is no mention of the battalion doing so.
    …I guess it’s all speculation until his military record comes through
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    2 RSF & the rest of 5th Div were in Egypt in 1943 before they went to Sicily.
    After Anzio they went back to Egypt & then up through Palestine to Syria.

    I've looked that up for you in my copy of the 5th Div history.
     
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  12. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    thank you so much for that Owen, this somewhat makes sense, as he signed up in 1941, like you say went on to be posted in Egypt 1943, until moving onto Sicily, to fight in Anzio in 1944.

    After that I assume then he must of been blown up at some point between Egypt, Palestine and Syria, after returning from Anzio.
     
  13. Gelert

    Gelert Active Member

    3137161 enlisted 13th February 1941.
     
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  14. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    Great, I think I might just order a copy on payday.

    That’s brilliant! How did you find that out? Hope you don’t mind me asking
     
  15. HighlandRoots

    HighlandRoots Member

    Does anyone have any idea, after I’ve received my grandfather’s service record, if I’d be able to apply to have his medals re-issued? I do believe he had some although they’re all sadly long gone now.

    I’ve read it may be possible, if I’m his widow (which I am obviously not) or in receipt of some kind of war pension (which I am also not). However all the family has sadly passed or moved on, so just curious to know if this could even be a possibility.

    thanks in advance all
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    WW2 medals weren't named unlike the ones for WW1.
    Just find out what he was entitled to & get ones off ebay or other such places.
     

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