South African POWs in Italy

Hi Paul,

Here is the page with your Grandfather listed, it has him in Campo 57 as of August 1943, that was Gruppignano near Udine.

Attached are the jpegs of his listing and the Camp lists.

This is all I can really help you with.

Steve.

 

Hi Kevin,
I went through the same trouble with my father.
Go to the effort requesting the ICRC, it takes a while but the info you recieve makes it worth while. It took 12 months but eventually I receive a reply.
Cheers Willi

 

Hi Kevin,

I cannot add anymore detail to what Brian has stated. You are more than welcome to a jpeg of his entry in WO392.

Just pm me and we will sort it.

Bamboo.

Dear Bamboo, I don't think I am using this correctly - my first time on this site. Are you able to find any info for me on my father Daniel lawrence Commins, South African Infantry. He was interned at Monte Casino and then in Germany. Any help much appreciated.

 

Hi - I'm new to WW2 Talk . Perhaps you can help if you access to a list of S African POWs at Kew ? I am trying to locate names of South African servicemen whose names are signed on a khaki handkerchief found in my late father's possessions.

I have attached some photos of the handkerchief.

He was a British POW at PG82 Laterina at Italy after being captured in Feb 1943 at the Battle of Sidi Nsir in Tunisia.
My father was Corporal Ralph Desty served with the 5th battalion of the Royal Hampshire Regiment.

The South African names are ( as close as I can make out ):
Martin de Fontaine
H Joo Berg ?
Gert Bischoff
Horatio Goold
Francois Joubert
David Smith
Mathew De Beer
Norman Heslop
Mike Berman
L Kaaltze
Maurice Gillperey
J E Pleyar


The other names on the handkerchief I assume are also British POWs:
Reginald Stange
Ted Stone
A Allinson
Ginger Gallagher
B Gradwell
M Larson
W B Wilson
R L Street
J.C Lewis
A Solweto

Any help would be great - I'd love to solve a mystery of many decades.

Lee

 

Dear Bamboo, I don't think I am using this correctly - my first time on this site. Are you able to find any info for me on my father Daniel lawrence Commins, South African Infantry. He was interned at Monte Casino and then in Germany. Any help much appreciated.


Here you go, he was in Camp 66 in August 1943. Jpeg attached.

Steve.

 

Hi Lee,

I will try and help. I have the file WO392/21, POW's to the Italians as of August 1943.

I will attach the pages for each man you list, starting with the South Africans.

On this first post the list confirms: Defontaine and M. Berman. The others like De Beer, Bischoff and Berg, well there are many options listed.

Steve.

 

South Africans 2. Covering names G-K. Heslop N. looks to be present, the others inconclusive.

 

South Africans 3 P-S. Well as you can imagine Smith D. well the world's you're oyster I'm afraid.

Remember these are only POW's as of August 1943, the other's could have come or gone by then?

 

Lee,

Here are the British POW's A-GA. Including you're father hopefully. The Camp numbers listed are the same as the South African list.

 

British Gr-L. JC Lewis is confirmed, the others possibilities exist.

 

Lee,

These are the final photos covering S-W. Some detective work needed, but at least now you have something to go on!!

Hope all these have helped, there is plenty there to investigate that's for sure.

Good luck.

Steve.

 

Steve
Thank your the fantastic assistance . I found my father's name in the British POWs. I also realsied that some of the handwriting has confused me - so now I think I have established one of the South Africans is S.D. Kooetze . I also think I know have an A.L Oliver in the British PoWs - is there a photo page for the British Pow K to P names ?
Pretty sure the R Street is one of the Royal Hampshires my father was in and L B Wilson looks like East Surreys who I think were also at Sidi Nsir - the same battle my father was captured. (Only discovered recently Sidi Nsir had been given the same status as Little Big Horn in one military book called Famous Last Stands by Bryan Perrett.) Link to one account is here:
Private Jonathan Wilkinson

As you say lots more to investigate. I have been overwhelmed by your help and support - I really didn't think I would find anything of assistance this long after the event.
Why did they all sign the handkerchief ? Well my father says this was done before an escape from Laterina. He said some the escapers were shot but he was lucky ...
That's another part of the story I'd like to run to ground...
There were some tough lads in the Royal Hampshires - territorials raised from ports cities like Southampton and Portsmouth - but my father said the South Africans were also very tough fighters who he admired greatly.
Thanks again Steve.
Lee

 

Glad to be of help, others on the forum may have greater knowledge of the camps and even the action you describe.

Pages K-P, is there a particular name you have in mind?

 

Steve
I think it's A.L Oliver or Oliveto or Olivero - I'm trying to work out the handwriting for the surname but the the intials are clear. It's in the British POW section.
Thank you
Lee

 

Hi Lee,

Yep! Here he is, see attached.

Cheers.

Steve.

 

Dear Bamboo43, Thank you soooo much for this. What is this regiter that you have sent a photo of? How do I work out how to use this website???

 

Dear Bamboo43, Thank you soooo much for this. What is this regiter that you have sent a photo of? How do I work out how to use this website???


Hi T Reid,

It is from the register of POW's held by the Italians as of August 1943. The file reference is WO392/21 and the document is held at the National Archives, Kew, London.

The listing is not online I'm afraid, I was given a copy by a friend whilst at the archives a couple of years ago.

Steve.

 

Hi all,

I see this is a bit of an old thread.

I am busy looking for information on various South African POW's captured in Tobruk and taken to Italian POW camps. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Dennis Patrick Cunnama, Umvoti Mounted Rifles - My Grandfather
Dennis Mack, unknown - My Grandmothers 2nd husband
Allan Courtney Swales, Umvoti Mounted Rifles - My Grandmothers first husband
Gerhardus Thomas Van der Walt, Umvoti Mounted Rifles - DP Cunnama's best friend.

Kind Regards,
Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

I am currently at work, but when I get home, I will look these gentlemen up in the WO392/21 file, which is held at the British National Archives. These lists are supposed to give the POW Camp location of prisoners as of August 1943.

Hopefully, it will have some information to give you a start at least? Others may be able to help you further.

Steve

 

The best place to look for full explanation would be at The National Archives .

What I will quote are the Rank and Service Nos.

Pte D P Cunnama 1559 --- Sgt D E Mack 51242 -- Pte A C Swales SAP/195629 -- Pte G T Van der Walt 5258.

With Pte Swales Service No doubt if he was U.M.R.

Perhaps the only other place to look for an explanation would be The South African Museum of Military History.

Even what I have posted is liable to be corrupt. You should read my post on POW Lists for a full explanation.


Hi all,

I see this is a bit of an old thread.

I am busy looking for information on various South African POW's captured in Tobruk and taken to Italian POW camps. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Dennis Patrick Cunnama, Umvoti Mounted Rifles - My Grandfather
Dennis Mack, unknown - My Grandmothers 2nd husband
Allan Courtney Swales, Umvoti Mounted Rifles - My Grandmothers first husband
Gerhardus Thomas Van der Walt, Umvoti Mounted Rifles - DP Cunnama's best friend.

Kind Regards,
Daniel