Prisoner Of War Lists

Thank you Brian for your very informative post. This answers a lot of questions I have asked myself during my research for details of my Great Uncle a Merchant Seaman, who was taken prisoner by the Japanese circa 1943 according to the Red Cross. When requesting his records from National Archives, I was sent the records for another unfortunate man of the same name, wrong Date of Birth and from North Wales not Lancashire!
I am now even more determined to find out what happened to my Great Uncle Robert Owen who was a Butcher on the vessel Ulua or Ulvia his identity certificate was 860931. I have another number on his Service Record of Dis.A No. 781099. The only other information I have is that the family were notified that the ship he was on was taken by the Japanese and that he died in a POW camp.
This a long shot, but if you or anyoneelse could point me towards the next direction I might try and take to find where e actually died, It would be much appreciated.

Regards

Edwina

 

Welcome Edwina,
Hopefully you will find the answers you seek however Brian ,(ADM199 ) is sadly no longer with us having passed away some time ago. Sorry

Kyle ,

 

Oh that is so sad.

Thank you Kyle for letting me know. I shall continue with my endeavors!

Best Regards
Edwina

 

Leave it with me and I will see what I can find from my lists.
Regards
Hugh

 

deleted post

TD

 

Hello Edwina,

I am still going through my files but I suspect you may need this BT 373/2008
Although I cannot guarantee it is the same man as I have found another with the same name but different rank.

* added* not sure of the above now but it is the only thing I have found. The above file probably relates to Robert Owen, Fireman of ss AUST who died in Japanese hands in 1943. Only two Robert Owen's from MN on CWGC so strange he is non-commemorated.

*added*

This man, from Hanley Staffs, also has a RNR record from 1919 - 1920 having previously served in the Mercantile Marine Reserve (MMR).
Regards
Hugh

 

Hello Hugh
The man you mention above from Hanley Staff could be the same one as my Grt Uncle Robert was born in Hanley Staffordshire, please see the record attached. This record was obtained from 'Forces War Records'.

Regards

Edwina

 

Hi Edwina,
DoB on RNVR record is the same 6th May 1890. What information do you have from the Red Cross regarding PoW? Anything you could post please?

Regards
Hugh

 

This could be him

UK, Merchant Seamen Deaths, 1939 -1953
Name: Robert Owen
Age: 47
Birth Date: abt 1896
Birth Place: Bangor, Caerns, Wales
Death Date: 23 Dec 1943
Death Place: P.O. W Camp Tokyo Area
Father: Owen


TD

 

UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
Name: Robert Owen
Age: 47
Birth Date: abt 1896
Death Date: 23 Dec 1943
Cemetery: Yokohama British Commonwealth War Cemetery Jap 1
Burial Country: Japan
Region or Memorial: Japan
Other Records:

TD

edited to add:
Fireman Robert Owen ( - 1943) - Find A Grave Memorial


UK, Shipping and Seamen WWI and WWII Rolls of Honour, 1914-1945
Name: Robert Owen
Death Age: 47
Birth Year: 1896
Death Date: 23 Dec 1943

 

That's the man I refer to in my #66 TD but does not appear to be the man indicated in Edwina's post who was from Staffs and was a butcher aboard ship not a fireman who was an engine-room rating.

Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh

Understand that, but as we know sometimes the facts become distorted within the family.

There is A Robert Owen born 1890 in Staffs but cannot connect him to MN or a Japenese POW camp, unlike the one above born 1896 who did die in a Jap POW Camp.

The files from TNA would be interesting

TD

 

UK, Campaign Medals Awarded to WWI Merchant Seamen, 1914-1925
Name: Owen Robert Owen
Birth Date: 1890
Birth Place: Portmadoc
Year Issued: 1914-1925
URL: http://discovery.nationalarchi...


This seems to be the only Robert Owen I can find with a connection to the Navy and a birth date as 1890 that appears in any records I have access to, that being said he was born in Wales

TD

 

Hi TD,

If Edwina has the correct man as indicated in her post #67 then I think we are looking for someone born in 1890 from Hanley in Staffs as per his MN ID photo attached in her post.
I think Edwina needs to come back with some information as I requested earlier, if she has it. I think I can also tie him to the RNVR in 1920. Also the ship he was on in 1920 was ss ULUA official number 141868 built in 1917.

Regards
Hugh

 

Hi TD,
Edwina said in her original post that the record sent to her in error was from Wales ? The Welsh Robert Owen is also featured on the Canadian Roll of Honour
Robert Owen - The Canadian Virtual War Memorial - Veterans Affairs Canada


Kyle

 

I read his last ship as Ulua - a google check shows that in 1919 it was at Brest and use to transport US troops back home

Origin & WW1 History of 328th FA
On 9 March 1919, they began their trip home from Camp D'Auvours, Belgium. Traveling by train and hiking, they reached the Forwarding Camp, 5km south of LeMans on the 10th. The next day, they hiked to Brest and after dinner hiked 5km to Camp Pontaneezan. There they boarded the HMS Ulua on 23 March, 1919 and were homeward bound. Returning to New York, they rested at Camp Mills before returning to Camp Custer, Michigan.


There is also this on the SS Ulua HMT Ulua again it is a troop ship used basically during WW1

The reason I have posted these is that it seems highly likely they would use a 'butcher' on these types of ships (no expert though) .

TD

 

Kyle
Does that mean he was born in Canada, and not Bangor, Wales??

TD

 

Hi Hugh and TD
I have just searched every box and file and finally found the photocopies received from TNA reference Robert Owen who is not related to me. They have sent A3 copies, so will have to try and photograph them to enable me to post on here.
Information is as follows: National Archives Ref: BT373/2008 (675808)
(1)
Robert Owen
Birth Date 17.1.1896, Place Bangor
Rank or Rating Fireman
Father Owen Owen, Orme Road, Bangor North Wales.
POW at AUST Chora(?) POW No. 14
Across the record is written: Died 23.12.43 Pneumonia R.G. 14645/45 Tokyo Camp

(2) - next page
OWEN Robert SB.3188
Tokyo Camp "Aust" (Norwegian)

Father Owen Owen 17.1.1896
Orme Road
Bangor
N. Wales

(3) - next page
Camp: Tokyo Camp
Surname OWEN
Initials R.
Christian Name in full ROBERT
Date of Birth 17.1.96 Place Bangor
Did A No. (this is blank) Rank or Rating Fireman
Name of Ship Aust (Norwegian)
Date of Loss of Ship (this is blank)
Next of kin Owen Owen Relationship Father
(address as above)

Country: Japan
****************************************************************************
Hope the above helps your records with the other Robert Owen (the Fireman)

Still looking for the Red Cross letter. It basically stated that they had no record of my Robert Owen. This communication with the Red Cross was in 1985, (I have moved house three times since then), so I could be looking for a needle in a haystack with this one.

I have been reflecting on conversations I had had with my late father in the 1980's and as such had assumed that as Roberts brother and nephew had both joined the Merchant Navy in WW2, his older brother as a Butcher and his nephew as a Steward, I assumed that Robert had joined the Merchant Navy too. I am therefore assuming it must have been the Royal Navy?

Regards

Edwina

 

Thanks Edwina - the only MN POW record for Robert Owen is the one you have which is the Welsh seaman born in 1896 and not the subject of your search.
I am interested in any documentation or evidence you have especially from the Red Cross to indicate he was a POW and that he died as a result of that captivity because he is not shown on the CWGC database.
The other option is to obtain his CRS 10 - service record from Jan, 1941 - which should be held at TNA Kew if it has survived. I can dig out the reference for you later.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thanks Hugh,
I would be grateful for the reference. I have been chasing this Grt Uncle for a long time, I only had my fathers word that he had died in a POW Camp. On finding the Welsh Robert Owen, I thought I had found the right person until I received TNA record.....!

Regards

Edwina