24th Lancers - Roll of Honour

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Ramiles, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. norton 407545

    norton 407545 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Rob, clears things up a bit. I was surprised when I see it said 17/21St lancers on his plaque but as you said he probably was commissioned into the 17/21 so that remained his Regiment

    Shaun
     
  2. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Rob and Shaun

    WAC Anderson had a very long and distinguished military career. His was a military family with his father earning a VC in WW1.

    WAC started with 17/21L, then 24L, then 22nd Dragoons, 3/4CLY, back to 17/21L, SRY and various others including being ADC to the Queen!...a great pity that he died soon after retiring.
     
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I have been thinking it might be nice to try to find and link to pics etc. as well as finding and augmenting info such as is contained at:
    http://www.unithistories.com/officers/Army_officers_ARB.html

    Where I think I noticed that there was not currently an entry for WAC Anderson i.e. at : http://www.unithistories.com/officers/Army_officers_A06.html

    But there is such a lot of info, all scattered about, and it would be near to impossible I suspect to check and verify as well as watch out for broken links etc. continuously.

    But still it can be quite nice to highlight and share what info I do find, and query stuff I (and others) perhaps do not yet understand.

    I was trying a little while ago to see if I could find a picture or more biographical info somewhere, for example of Alick Poole:

    Also, currently absent here: http://www.unithistories.com/officers/Army_officers_P03.html

    Captain Alick Hugh Poole. 24th Lancers - KIA 7/6/1944: http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2328639/POOLE,%20ALICK%20HUGH

    Identified pictures I think would always be useful as they could go some way in the future to helping family and researchers identify, as yet unidentified faces in crowd photos of 24th Lancers or other groups that might subsequently turn up.

    Likewise, I probably suspect that there would be pictures of WAC Anderson with the Queen, or in much later pictures of him with the SRY etc. But currently when I google the name unfortunately I can't really shift through adequately, the fairly "random" selection of what seems to come up.

    I imagine WAC Anderson was considering writing his own story, once he had retired, and although I am sure he contributed fully to NHL, he could easily have written some great autobiographical books!

    My own gd. seems to have spent some of his short retirement also in assembling some remembrances, and it's such a great pity that he can't be quizzed on some of the specifics that he left there.

    Even such a simple question as "Eric" who! Or what was that "village"? Or where was that barn or field :rolleyes: That could have been answered in a heartbeat if he knew it might have been the sort of thing someone would have asked. The letters are just as intriguing as you are only hearing half of a conversation and because of the fact that they are censored a lot is either cryptic or just left out.

    It was interesting to me though that WAC Anderson censored and signed the first ones of my gd. back from Normandy though, especially as he (WAC) was himself wounded (and briefly) evacuated back to the UK (to a conference in London?) I think...

    I seem to be making some progress though and more seems to come out day by day...

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  4. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    WAC died about 10 years before NHL was published so had no direct input. His private papers apparently have been preserved but they are in a Regimental archive somewhere in East Anglia and not available online so difficult to access.

    On the topic of his being a military family, according to NHL his own father (with posthumous VC) was just one of four brothers killed in WW1......makes the fictional 'Saving Private Ryan' look 'modest' by comparison.....what a tragic situation for the Anderson family.
     
  5. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Steve (SDP),

    I did wonder if there wasn't a remote chance that this: http://www.isle-of-wight-memorials.org.uk/normandy/newnham_er.htm

    [​IMG]

    http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2219014/NEWNHAM,%20ERIC%20ROY

    Was the "Eric" that my gd mentioned in his letters, as I think he was in a C squadron tank?

    14231111 TROOPER
    E R NEWNHAM
    24TH LANCERS
    ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    10TH JUNE 1944 AGE 22
    +
    GOD WILL REMEMBER

    But he (gd) also mentions an Eric Hanson (who was the tank commander in a C squadron Firefly I think)
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/60153-24th-lancers-lst-query/#entry695344

    Though by not saying just Eric there, that might help distinguish between two, as by giving the surname he's making it clear that his is not the usual "Eric" that my nan knew...

    I wasn't sure either if: Henry Patrick Compton :http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2218590/COMPTON,%20HENRY%20PATRICK

    http://www.fallenheroesphotos.org/Servicemen/Detail/22062

    Was in the same or a different tank to Eric R. NEWNHAM. But "Henry Patrick Compton" was also in C squadron 24th L too.

    All the best,

    Rm.
     
  6. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Rob

    Newnham was a Gunner/Operator in C Squadron.

    Sgt Hanson was TC of the second (Sergeants) tank in 5th Troop C Squadron (The Firefly Troop commanded by Lt Bertram Garai).

    Compton was a Gunner/Mechanic (Co-Driver) in C Squadron.

    Compton and Newnham were killed on the same day but I have no information as to whether they were in the same tank crew.
     
    Ramiles likes this.
  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Thanks! (post #26 above) - oddly, looking at what they each did, I suppose it is just possible that they (all 3) could actually, even have all been in the same tank.

    Fireflys had 4 crew (rather than the usual 5 in a Sherman) -

    4 (Commander, gunner, loader / radio-operator, driver) in a firefly,

    5 (commander, gunner, loader, driver, co-driver) in a "regular Sherman.

    Re. "Compton and Newnham were killed on the same day", seems possible that they were in the same tank, if they were KIA, when their tank was lost on the 10th.

    Quite right though re. no actual "information as to whether they were in the same tank crew". Speculation at best. Especially since some accounts seem to say that many C squadron tanks were lost in the area of St.Pierre.

    This is what I have at present for 10/06/1944 : Saturday 10th June 1944

    During this action the 24th L Regiment suffered casualties in tanks and personnel and the Commanding Officer was wounded. (24th L WD) - (Some other accounts say "C" squadron 24th L lost 12 tanks in the area of St.Pierre.

    I have seen reports of three KIA 24th Lancers on this date, two in "C" squadron and one in HQ.

    The HQ 24th L loss was: Trooper Jack Moore : http://www.fallenheroesphotos.org/Servicemen/Detail/17873

    http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2045468/MOORE,%20JACK

    Who was buried in Ryes War Cementary, Brazenville, whereas Compton and Newnham were both burried in Tilly (i.e. elsewhere).

    I am also looking into some links to the Battles for Point 103 and St.Pierre - 8th-18th June here:
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/57272-the-battles-for-point-103-and-st-pierre-8th%E2%80%93-18th-june-1944/
     
  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  9. dfielder

    dfielder Junior Member

  10. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

  11. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Keystone-1-captioned600onPAN.png

    Re. Bertram Henry Garai (see also post #26 above)

    In 5th Troop C Squadron 24th Lancers (The Firefly Troop commanded by Lt Bertram Garai)
    (Nb. the 24th L had troops of Fireflys, whilst some other regiments had 1 Firefly per troop)

    American civilian in London, GB, 1939-1940; trooper served with 51st Training Regt, Royal Armoured Corps in GB, 1941; officer cadet at Royal Military College, Sandhurst, GB, 1942; officer served with 24th Lancers and 23rd Hussars in GB and North West Europe, 1943-1944; served with 3rd Carabiniers in India, 1945-1946

    There is an IWM audio here (albeit not currently available online!): Garai, Bertram Henry (Oral history) (16359)

    But with the following description: "selection for 24th Lancers; punishment of fellow cadet, Richard Leather; celebrations in London after passing out from Sandhurst; passing out parade. Recollections of period as officer with 5 Troop, C Squadron 24th Lancers in GB, 1943-1944: initial posting to 107th Regt, Royal Armoured Corps at Leyburn, 1/1943; an example of army discipline; reasons for delay in joining 24th Lancers; joining unit at Chippenham Park near Newmarket; reception on joining unit. REEL 4 Continues: unit officers; introduction to his troop; question of treating one's tank as horse; battle run at Kirkcudbright, 1943; training on Yorkshire Wolds based on Bridlington; injury to ankle during commando course at Hornsea; re-equipping with Sherman tanks from US; method of firing on target; selecting of 'stick man'; compassionate leave on loss of brother serving in RAF; co-ordination; co-ordination with 8th Bn Rifle Bde; arrival of new equipment prior to D-Day in Winchester area; embarkation at Southampton, 6/1944. Recollections of operations as troop commander with 5 Troop, C Squadron 24th Lancers in Normandy. 6/1944: character of Channel crossing; use of Rhinos to disembark tanks; landing on beaches, 7/6/1944. REEL 5 Continues: waterproofing of tanks; situation on beach; advance inland to Le Hamel; role of military police; Richard Leather's winning of Military Cross; advance to Creuilly; reaction to sight of dead British troops; German use of snipers; advance to Point 103 above Tilly-sur-Seulles; use of Sherman Firefly; results of unit's initial contact with German armour during advance to St Pierre; wounding during knocking out of his tank by German tank. Memories of evacuation to and hospitalisation in GB, 6/1944-8/1944. Recollections of operations as officer with 1 Troop, A Sqdn 23 Hussars, 11th Armoured Div in North West Europe, 8/1944-9/1944: fate of 24 Lancers during his absence. "

    See also: 24th Lancers Newsletter: 'Lancer Life'.

    Along with a mention of his death in 2014: http://www.pressphotohistory.com/r-i-p-bertram-garai-keystone-press-agency-london/



    http://www.pressphotohistory.com/keystone-press-agency-1981-where-are-they-now/

    Number 10 is Bertram Henry Garai in later years.

    Ps. See also: Romola Garai - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  12. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Another ex-24th Lancer that is mentioned in the 24th Lancer War diary was...

    Captain.Derek S.Allhusen (later Major)

    Who (I think) is (briefly) mentioned here about a third of the way down the "page" - and albeit with the 24th L bit left out: http://peeragenews.blogspot.co.uk/2009_03_01_archive.html

    "Maj Derek Swithin Allhusen, CVO (1914-2000), 9th Lancers, a former High Sheriff of Norfolk, one of HM Bodyguard of the Hon Corps of Gentelmen-at-Arms, [Standard Bearer, 1981-4], the scion of a family long established at Bradenham Hall, Thetford. "


    Ps. Thanks SDP (#34) & CL1 (#35) below...
     
  13. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I was looking at one of the previous posts:
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/37155-24th-lancers/page-2#entry639800

    Re. Tpr James Dixon Adamson No 7960745

    Whom it says was wounded on the 9/6/44 and in the next post #42 it says: "According to the Nominal Roll he was a Gunner/Mechanic in 'C' Squadron. Not sure of the Troop or tank."

    Including... "He is not mentioned by name in 'None Had Lances' but, because of other information to hand, albeit circumstantial, it is possible that he was in Lt Bertram Garai's tank which was a Sherman Firefly (5th Troop, tank 1). Alternatively he could have been in Lt Gray's Sherman 75mm tank (4th Troop tank 1)."

    And in post#44 : "I believe that may also further imply that he was in Bertram Garai's tank because 24th Lancers were also the first Regiment to try the Firefly Sherman....and I believe that may well have been at Lulworth. Speculative at this stage but might be worth testing the theory via research. "

    In light of the IWM audio (not currently available on line) by Garai:
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/60152-24th-lancers-roll-of-honour/page-2#entry700690

    This might perhaps be of aid to some further "research" - albeit it might be a bit of a wild goose-chase ;)

    As regards my own gd's gunner/mechanic also in 'C' Squadron, 2nd tank of the 1st troop there, I have a number of "clues" as to who this might have been, at the moment I don't think he was wounded on the 9th (so would def. not be the above) - however there is a strong possibility that he was perhaps KIA later in the war. Gd. mentions that he "never missed" and potentially together they got a German tank near Rauray around the end of June/beginning of July.

    I have a "list" of some 24th Lancer names (i have seen etc.) and alphabetically (at the mo.!) "Adamson" is the "first" one in there.

    All the best,

    Rm.


     
  14. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Derek Allhusen was also a member of the British Olympic Team. A very accomplished horseman.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  16. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Captain Douglas Aitken MO 24th Lancers Normandy - Diarist and contributor to "None Had Lancers" is referred to or referenced in a number of other books and online links...

    Private Papers of Captain D G Aitken RAMC (Nb. currently available online as a pdf of the typed transcript) : Wellcome Library | Photocopy of typed transcript of the diary of Dr. Aitken, Regimental Medical Officer, 24th Lancers, June-July 1944, during the invasion of Normandy

    IWM link containg description info (nb. source document not currently available via this link to vie online - i.e. use the "Wellcome" one above) : Private Papers of Captain D G Aitken RAMC (Documents.12085)

    Content description: "Ts transcription (44pp) of an account covering his service with the Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC) as Medical Officer to the 24th Lancers (8th Armoured Brigade, XXX Corps) from May to July 1944, describing the preparations for their crossing to France, arrival on 7 June 1944 and advance through Normandy, their first action, its effect on the men and their first casualties, his Regimental Aid Post and a typical day's work, his exhaustion and the effect on his morale of the death of friends in the Regiment, the accidental death of a soldier, a series of tank battles around Bayeux and in the 'Bocage' and the resulting casualties, and also criticising a disorganized Field Ambulance. Together with a photograph of Aiken in uniform."

    Voices from D-Day: Eyewitness accounts from the Battles of Normandy - By Jon E. Lewis
    Voices from D-Day

    Monty's Men: The British Army and the Liberation of Europe - By John Buckley (i.e. p50)
    Monty's Men

    Nothing Less Than Victory - By Russell Miller
    Nothing Less Than Victory
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  17. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  18. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    James Noel Cowley

    Commanded "C" squadron of the 24th Lancers in Normandy until wounded when hit on the head by a piece of shrapnel on the 10th June 1944:

    The 24th L WD for 10th June 1944 has:

    "Pt 103 - 10/6/44 At first light, 3 of ‘C’ Sqn tanks together with the Sqn Leader who was wounded arrived at Pt 103 and reported heavy opposition from St Pierre and fire from enemy tanks in the area. The DLI, in the village had suffered heavy casualties and the remainder of the Regiment left Pt 103 and advanced to St Pierre, ‘A’ Sqn on the right covering the bridge crossing the R. Seulles to the East of Tilly and ‘B’ Sqn on the left overlooking Fontenay. The remainder of ‘C’ Sqn tanks withdrew to the perimeter at Pt 103 and covered the action.

    St Pierre - 10/6/44 - By the late afternoon the situation in St Pierre had been restored and leaving the infantry to hold St Pierre, together with a Sqn of SRY, the Regiment moved back to Pt 103. During this action the Regiment suffered casualties in tanks and personnel and the Commanding Officer was wounded. Major.G.L.Streeter, MC,. took over Command of the Regiment."

    His obituary in the Telegraph after his death on January 17th 2010, details his long career and mentions his service with the 24th L. It mentions his wounding (10/6/1944) and a "report by the MO there": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/7636192/Colonel-Noel-Cowley.html

    Edit: Additionally: Obituary: Colonel Noel Cowley

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  19. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  20. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018

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